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Please help - what religion do you follow?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by lukemurawski, Feb 3, 2013.

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  1. lukemurawski

    lukemurawski Senior Member

    I totally lost you guys. Let me reply slowly.

    @Raised: Well, I can see why you would neglect the modern physical theories of the universe, and by all means, you have a right to do so. However, those theories are something we can see, explain, and interact with. They are governed by a set of mathematical principles which can be proven, tested, and re-tested. Moreover, these mathematical principles have never failed. God on the other hand cannot be "tested," for God just "exists" in a sense we cannot fathom.

    Giving God unprovable "characteristics" like we do in Christianity and Islam is a method to explain what our brains cannot. For example, in Christianity, we have a thing just like you guys do with women and adultery. It's the concept of sin. Fucking is a sin, and we are born with sin because of "original sin," or sin that you inherit from your parent's dirty acts. However, the reason I say it's stupid is because reproduction is a matter of a species' survival. Without sex, there is no life.

    And what is "sin?" It's a relative term. What's evil for one guy may be a great thing for another. "Sin" is defined by culture, and what's good or taboo goes alongside culture, another relative thing. Thus, a lot of things that the Bible and the Qur'an tell us as "bad" is simply what human beings consider to be "bad" in a relativistic sense. For example, without sex/adultery there is no life. The extinction of human beings is something I don't consider to be "good" (it may be good for the planet, but not good for us).

    Also the thing in Christianity/Islam with angels and demons... None of it makes any sense. Like consider the Christian exorcism (I don't know if Islam has something similar), where the priest sprinkles some Holy water (H2O with his faith poured into it) on the person with the unclean spirit in him. Why must that water, which is part of this world, drive a spirit out?

    And how can eternal Heaven and Hell exist as part of the spiritual world when we apply worldly characteristics to something unproven? Why must there be "eternal" heaven and hell? Surely souls would learn their lessons. In Christianity, we say that all non-christians will go to hell in limbo and get a chance to go back to heaven-- all they have to do is "believe" in God. I assume Islam has something similar. Now, I scrutinize, why? Why would God care if insignificant pieces of protoplasm like us "believe" in something our minds cannot possibly comprehend? Surely he realizes that? Why would an innocent man who has committed good in his life be sent to hell because he is not Christian or Islamic or whatever? I don't mean to play on anyone's faith here-- I am a devout Catholic, but part of religious growth is to question what our forefathers tell us.

    When clear-cut evidence exists that tell us that we come from the very rocks that make up this planet (the same carbon, water, etc), and evolve from other animals (mammalian eukaryotic organisms), denying the fact is kind of like ignorance on our part. A lot of Christians and Muslims contest the theory of evolution based on faith.


    @Captain: religion can be a source of corruption, indeed.


    @Daddy: I don't really understand, but I kind of get it. So you have three gods which are basically the same. Like in christianity, we have 3 things (the Holy Trinity) that make up 1 thing.

    Just goes to show that way back, religions might have branched from similar beliefs.
     
  2. Canada - Pagan (Anamist, to be exact)
    Polytheistic
     
  3. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    So in Christianity, it is still considered a sin if you have sex with your legal wife/husband? Islam says it is sin to have sexual relationship with anyone outside of the marriage so if you are married to someone then it is fine to have a sexual relationship with your partner so when our parents do it and have a baby, that is not considered as a sin. If my dad had any sexual relationship with another lady then that would be a sin.

    Islam believes in Angels/Demons/Witches and i also believe in them because i have personally seen people possessed by demons, even few of my cousins in east but i am not sure how they take them out. Going back to the topic of people misusing their powers, the "professionals" who get these demons out can be deceivers as well. I watched in news that in Pakistan, there was some guy who would take ladies into a private room alone, tell her family members that he will get the demon out of her and he would actually have sex with them and he had sex with 40 or 50 odd girls like that but he wasn't a real professional of taking demons out of the body.

    Islam also believes that Angels whilst Gabriel being the leader of the angels (made of light) are always worshiping God and every human has two angels on their shoulder (one of the right and one of the left). The angel on the right side writes all the good deeds you do and the angel on the left writes all the bad things you do and on the judgement day, both of your deeds will be placed in your hands and whichever is the heaviest will result towards your outcome meaning you could go to paradise or hell depending on which weights out the other. Also, Muslims believe that two angels visit your grave on the night you are buried and ask you few questions about you believing in God and asking whether you believe that Prophet Muhammed was the messenger of God etc.

    Islam believes that the Devil or as we call them 'Jin' (made of fire) can be good or bad just like humans and their leader is called 'Iblis'. Until the "birth" of Adam, all devils were obedient of God and worshiped him but when Adam was created, God ordered both angels and demons to bow down to Adam and the leader of the demons Iblis refused the order and said, that he is more powerful than Adam as he is made of fire and Adam is made out of clay so long story short, God kicked him out of the paradise and said, he will be sent to hell upon which he asked God if he can be given the time until the judgement day to try and take many of his servants (humans) with him to hell so God said that only the people who do not follow the right path will go to hell with him.

    Yes in Islam, we have similar to what you mentioned about non-believers going to hell but there are few things which i'd like to explain about this. Who is a believer in Islam or what does a person need to do to become a believer? The main thing is to offcourse believe that their is God (same as Christianity) but the other condition is to testify that the prophet Muhammed is the messenger of God. But just because someone is a non-Muslim does not mean that they will go to hell. For instance, if someone lives in a jungle or a far away place where the religion has not reached out and is unaware of these conditions and that person dies as a non-believer then he will not go to hell. If a christian, Hindu, Jew or a Sikh person has faith in God regardless of the religion and doesn't do anything wrong in his life or a major sin like adultery then with God's will that person will also not go to hell or atleast will be given a chance to go to heaven because we Muslims believe that God is merciful. Another example could be is, suppose there was a child who was only a year old but he was not a Muslim but from a different religion and he dies, he would not go to hell either because he didn't do anything wrong in his life.

    Religion can become complicated if you try to think everything logically and i could give you many examples from our holy book which will make you think that is scientifically impossible. Like i said, there are certain things we just have to have faith in regardless of them being true or not. It's not like i am losing anything in just having a belief that God exists so i'd rather try something which has more chances of benefiting me and losing nothing than losing a lot and gaining nothing.
     
  4. Always a problematic subject, religion.
     
  5. lukemurawski

    lukemurawski Senior Member

    Yes, you are correct that it is about belief. But, religion should also explain this world because religion is a part of this world. If religion cannot be subjected to this world, or break down in certain conditions of this world, then it is not a completely truthful representation of one must do in this world.

    I have many friends that attest to exorcisms. We say that those who don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Messenger on Earth will go to hell in limbo (and be given a chance to repent). However, under scientific scrutiny, such things seem completely retarded. Names are nothing but sound vibrations. Consider:

    Say: "Jesus Christ" or "Muhammed"

    [​IMG]

    Stating that one must believe in Jesus Christ or Muhammed as a "messenger" of God is just silly. (As you can see, I am not like most Catholics.) Sounds are nothing but waves, and waves are a part of this world, not the afterlife. Angels and demons obey God's will in Cathalocism too, and even worshiped God before Satan became a fallen angel, but when subjected to science, religion just breaks down whether we like it or not. Worshipping is an act of this world. I think the spiritual world is unlike this world because the "laws of physics" there may not exist in the form we know it, and there is no way to prove it either. Near-death experiences have been analyzed and even replicated in the lab. It's nothing but a dream that is caused by an electrolyte stimulus in the lower part of the cerebrum. It gives people a depth perception issue in which people can imagine tunnels or holes or whatever.

    If religion cannot adhere to the facts of this world, then it has no right to tell us how to behave in this world. By simply turning a blind eye on religion will not disprove a previously proven fact. All the mythology and theology of every major religion in this world breaks down in the face of science. It's a sad reality, but true. Regardless, IMO one must still keep faith. It's the least bit we have in an otherwise void universe. Still, unless religion can be refined, it will only hinder man's progress.

    The days when the Bible/Qur'an told us that hurricanes are caused when God/Allah fights Lucifer/Jin was just stupid. People get sick because an unclean spirit (aka demon) "sucks" on your soul was disproved when scientists discovered bacteria. People go to hell or heaven based on their actions in this world can also be unrectified when you take a look at culture; there is a tribe in South Africa where the woman must have her vagina cut and raped as a rite of passage-- seems like a sin, but it's their culture, and to them (even the women) it's not a sin. Will the males in that society go to hell? I don't think so. Will they go to heaven? Who knows. They are only following the "religion" that their forefathers passed down to them, just like what was passed to us when we were born. People are born into a particular culture out of their control, and thus those "unbelievers" should go to heaven due to the predicament, should they not?

    The more science is explored, the more religion is disproved. One day, mankind will leave religion behind--perhaps in a big war to end it all. Apocalypse.

    To answer your question, yes, even the parents having sex is sin, and that sin is passed down to us (known as "original sin") but original sin was erased when Jesus Christ suffered for man's sins. Let me ask you a question. What must I do if I were Muslim in order to go to heaven?
     
  6. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    Just know that all Muslims have to be faithful to God and follow the teachings of his messenger.
    However, this is a subjective matter.

    You won't know whether you go to heaven or not no matter how pious you can be as a Muslim.

    This is for God to decide and all humans will know their fate on the day of judgement including those that have pass away.

    If you are clueless as to what i am saying.. this is because subject like this are difficult to comprehend or explained in forum. it is better to discussed in person with those who have a better understanding on this subject.

    We Muslims are encourage to pray to God and especially to pray for forgiveness after each prayer for the sins that we know and unknown. Again, you need to be a scholar on this subject to provide you with better information. the information you have here in forum are all on the surface points of view. No deeper insights provided. You can have a better understanding of Islam if you actually visit the nearest islamic centre or established mosque near your city/state/country.

    By the way, don't u need a proper list of references to be included in your research paper/ project.
    Will your university accept MG as a reference list.
     
  7. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    Pretty much what Littlebrother said but i'd like to add another thing to that. Islam has 5 pillars which acts are obligatory of a foundation of a Islamic life.

    1) Shahada - Declaring that there is only one God and Prophet Muhammed is the messenger of Allah (Very important to be a Muslim if you deny this then you are no longer a Muslim as you are accusing God of being wrong)

    2) Salat (prayers) - Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day and those times are specific and change everyday but Muslims can get timetables from mosques so no biggy. (This is also important but it can be said that it is not important as Shahada and a person still has chances of going to paradise if he does not pray 5 times and God finds any of his deed rewarding enough to send him to paradise but since no one knows if any one their deed will guarentee them to paradise so it is better to pray as much as you can).

    3) Zakat (Charity) - Every year, every muslim has to pay 2.5% charity of ones worth meaning how much money they have in their bank account, jewelry, property etc and you workout the 2.5% of it and give it to less fortunate. If someone is really poor then they are not obliged to give any money as they are less fortunate so to help less fortunate, middle class or rich people have to give charity. When giving charity, the intention must be declared to God, the person who gave charity should not brag about to other people that i gave this much money to other people etc.

    4) Sawm (Fasting) - Every year Muslims fast for a month and every year, the date of fasting money decreases by 10 days so one year, we could be fasting in December where the days are short and the other, we could be fasting in July where the days are longer. During the fast, we are not allowed to eat or drink anything from the moment of prior to praying the fajar(morning, before sunrise) prayers until Maghrib (evening, after sunset) prayers. The Muslims see this month as a month of repentance and the Quran mentions that in the month of Ramadhan (sawm), all devils are locked in chains in hell so there should not be a devil in our head telling us to do wrong things, if person still chooses to do wrong things then it is entirely their own fault. Muslims fast all day so we think of people who are less fortunate and have to stay hungry all day and ask God for forgiveness for our sins. This is obligatory on all Muslims but if someone is old, pregnant, breastfeeding or has medical issues where they are unable to stay all day without food or water then they are not obliged to fast but they can choose to give the food to less fortunate people on their behalf for the sake of God.

    5) Hajj (pilgrimage) - Every year millions of Muslims go on Hajj during the month of hajj but the date/month changes like Sawm. Every Muslim who can afford to go on hajj is obliged to go at least once to makkah in their life. There is a special dress code for this ritual and Muslims believe that going on this pilgrimage should be an expression of devotion to God and not to gain a social standing. During the pilgrimage, there are certain tasks which need to be completed in order to do the Hajj properly. Makkah is the most holiest place for Muslims and the Quran explains it why and this part would extend a lot if i started writing it.

    Another thing which is really important but not one of the pillars of Islam is to sacrifice an animal for the sake of God and distribute the meat to the less fortunate. The reason we do this is because of the story of Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) and his son in Quran where Abaraham was ordered to sacrifice his own son as he was being tested by God and he took his son and told his son what he was ordered to do and his son happily agreed to be sacrificed so when Abraham placed a knife on his son's throat, the knife wouldn't work and then God sent a sheep/goat and told Abraham that he had succeeded in his test and from that moment on, we sacrifice an animal. I missed out few important parts of this story of how the devil tried stopping Abraham, his son and his wife on three places and all three of them threw a stone at the devil and now Muslims who go on hajj (pilgrimage) also throw stones at those exact places as part of the ritual.

    Those are just the main things to be a Muslim but then are many small things which Islam teaches us to do like being kind to others, not lie, look after our parents, no violence etc but like Littlebrother said, to learn more about Islam and to get the actual facts which we are not able to provide on here as we lack the knowledge, it would be better to visit places where they provide such facts in US or by speaking to more knowledgeable people.
     
  8. lukemurawski

    lukemurawski Senior Member

    In the old testament, that story goes like this: God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and Abraham took him up a mountain and proceeded as God commanded him. Right before Isaac was sacrificed, an Angel was sent from Heaven to stop the sacrificial process.

    The funny thing is, in Christianity we say that one must believe that Jesus Christ is the only Savior and Messenger-- otherwise they are not going to heaven and will repent in purgatory. Just like you guys say that Muhammed is the messenger of Allah. Jewish people say that neither Jesus nor Muhammed were anyone special. This is where religious bias comes in. In the end, as sentient beings, we must understand that "Jesus" and "Muhammed" are both just sounds. Saying one must believe in a particular sound is like saying one must believe in a particular sound distribution graph, and that doesn't really make sense.
     
  9. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    I know what you mean and the Jewish people only believe up to Moses and Moses is to them what Jesus is to Christians and Muhammed pbuh is to Muslims but they never believed that nor Jesus or prophet Muhammed pbuh were sent by God but Muslims believe in both Jesus and Moses as one of the prophets sent by God to lead people towards righteous. My next door neighbours are "Muslims" but they are different kind of Muslims who believe that there was another prophet after Prophet Muhammed when the Quran clearly states that Prophet Muhammed pbuh is the last messenger but there are not many of those Muslims in the world but we get along fine as neighbours and i've never said that they are wrong to think that prophet Muhammed is not the last messenger and vice versa as we all have different beliefs.

    Just like Christianity has many types of Christians like Catholics, Protestants etc, Muslims have many as well but i only know few major ones in which they have certain different beliefs. They all believe in Allah and Prophet Muhammed but they just have their own set of ideas about other things which ended up creating different types like Sunni, Shia, Wahabi etc. According to Prophet Muhammed pbuh, by the day of judgement day, there will be 72/73 (can't remember which one was it) different types of Muslims in the world but only one of them will be right. Since i am a Sunni Muslim and go to Sunni mosques, our priest says that Sunni Muslims are the right ones and i am sure that other 71/72 will say the same thing which is another complicated thing about religion because they would have been raised with those beliefs. I believe majority of the people in Saudi Arabia are Wahabi and Iraq has mostly Shia's.

    When it comes to Religion, i don't believe in anything what science says because although the scientist may have some valid points but what does science say about life after death or our purpose of even existing in the world and will the world ever end? Suppose if i started to believe in science and said religion is phony and became atheist, will it benefit me in any way? I know i won't lose anything but as i stated before, i am not losing anything even right now in having a faith in a religion and family values in which i was raised but if there really is a God and there is a life after death then surely, living my life as the religion says will only be beneficial for me.
     
  10. lukemurawski

    lukemurawski Senior Member

    Yep, everyone says that they are right, and since God knows that each one of us thinks he/she is right, God will send everyone to heaven because He will not punish those who were taught to believe in a certain way since childhood.

    Anyway, thanks a lot for the clarifications! I learned a lot about other religions and I have a greater appreciation for them now.

    Peace :)
     
  11. Religion & Politics.

    Talking about religion and politics is not allowed on MG Server or Forums as debates of this type have a tendency to get out of hand and Offense to other can easily be caused. A short Ban maybe given, Repeat breaking of this Rule will result in longer bans


    naughty luke
     
  12. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    Maybe if it was some kids arguing about other religions then yeah, things might get out of control, but no one really criticised anyone's religion to offend someone and this matter has been resolved as Luke concluded his last post with;

    thanks a lot for the clarifications! I learned a lot about other religions and I have a greater appreciation for them now.

    Anyways, thanks for your concerns :)
     
  13. L1teHawk

    L1teHawk Senior Member

    Luke,

    That is not at all what Catholicism is about. You do not have a right to speak because you are one young man who refuses to go to Church. Anyhow, I will refrain from criticizing you for now, but I will drag you to Church with my family the moment you can walk :)
     
  14. lukemurawski

    lukemurawski Senior Member

    Hell no. I'm not going to one of your protestant churches :P and I think I know catholicism better than you thank you.
     
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