EXTREME CO-OP COMPLAINTS

Here I am again. I would like to get, if possible, the opinion of every admin/root admin high lvl/low lvl players. Of course i won't expect the lowlies to like what i am about to post, but i really don't care for their opinion. Due to the tone of the post, there is a possibility i get banned...i hope it doesn't happen...Moving on

1. TANKS - No offense, but the tanks on extreme co-op are a joke.
   Regular tanks are way to easy to kill. Maybe they could have more health or something...i dunno, that makes them stronger. the tank on regular coop is way harder to kill than the ones here. Maybe having that tank here will increase the dificulty.
   
   PARANOIA TANKS - You should not be able to melee a paranoia. Period. I know the low lvls will bitch and moan that "OMG, it's soo hard to kill a paranoia." Wake up n00bies, it's called EXTREME COOP for a reason. You are not supposed to win every time. If you want a nice server, where you stroll along from saferoom A to safe-room B with a few SI/CI to kill, just so you don't get bored go on REGULAR COOP

CI/SI DISTRIUTION - there are portion of maps where you actually don't have any CI/SI. NO MERCY is one of them. Once you have passed 75% of the map, there are no CI/SI. For example, Sunday, 7/24/11, NO MERCY - map before rooftop - was the only time we had to fight swarms of CI/SI after we took the elevator to the top floor, since I've started playing EXTREME. That was it.

• LEVEL LIMITATION -Title says it all. What is the point of players under a certain lvl (let's say 50, cause there are a few lvl 50-100 players that there are actually good) on EXTREME COOP?
  
  Let me give you an example. Today, whenever i played, out of 14 players, 8 were under lvl 40 and the rest pretty much 75+. Now let me start with the beginning.
  
  • THEIR HELP - MINIMAL. Having to fight SI/CI on one hand while keeping an eye/ rescuing them from smokers/chargers/jockeys tends to be annoying after a while. A Jockey for example needs only a few seconds to incapp a lowlie and then move to the next...Plus they slow us down and make us an easy target.
    
  • CAMPAIGN FINALE - FIRST TO BE ON THE BOAT/HELI. On every finale, if you would look at the heli/boat everyone there was a lowlie. I mean, us, High Levels, do our best to save them, most of the times just to have them run past us when we are down? And they GET FREE EXP FROM US? Pardon my expression, but SCREW THEM. Either play as a team or GTFO. Sittuation like this happened to me and lots of other players more than once. On time limited finales it's even worst
    
  • WASTE OF MEDKITS - The first thing a lowlie does when in the safe-room is to heal. Even if they are told on chat
    they don't listen. In a situation where 10 out of the 16 players are n00bs, 10 will burn a kit each and take a spare, if found. That means that the high lvls left behind to protect their sorry n00b asses have no kit to heal and ends the round, if lucky enough with to few bounty to buy a kit. Therefor, the following round, if he's in the red will have the same health, while the n00bie has full health and a KIT. Now is that fair? The newbie just runs from safe to safe and gets full health and a kit. if left alive.
    
  • PICKING UP PPL - No one one likes to be picked up with 30 health. That means that either you get in-capped again in the next 2 minutes or you have to burn a kit/pills. if you have them. Without the negotiator buff that tends to be impossible most of the time. I don't give a rats ass that the n00bies need bounty too. Why do i have to burn 10-17 bounty for pills/kit so he can get 5 bounty? Buzz off newbie. You pick me up, i will pass by you and let you die if you are down.
    
    NOTION OF GAME-PLAY I mean really, most of them don't even know what's going on. No crawling, no self-revive, no nothing. Not to mention that they don't listen or don't even have the basic notion of English. How are you supposed to coordinate if the newbies don't even understand the language? TEAM-PLAY=0
    
    

This will do for now, if the thread stays open i will add more. Like I've said, the lowlies won't like it, but it had to be done.

I thought that the privilege of playing EXTREME COOP and HELM'S DEEP had to be earned not taken for granted like I've seen so far. With the increasing number of lowlies playing VS i have moved to EXTREME so i don't start to many votekicking requests. We had 2 servers that were only for high lvls, PLEASE leave them like they were. I like playing on them and so do a lot of high lvls, but we are forced out by all the n00bies. Good high lvl players have stopped/ played less and less because of all these lowlies on servers where they can't even survive for a whole map w/o constant baby-sitting

My sincerest apologies if i offended any of the MG staff with this thread
Adrian

 

I got to agree with some of the stuff your talking about, the tanks on the extreme server our easy to kill. But at the same time there is so many special infected spawning that I would imagine a paranoia tank spawning at final that isn't melee-able would be imposable to beat. On the note about extreme server having a level cap, I would like to see it added the same way it was added on helms deep. Not that I have anything against low lvls since back then I was one my self, but at the same time they either get incap/or die extremely fast.

 

Got to agree too, on some points...

I'm not high lvl yet I think (don't know if lvl. 67 is considered low or high), But on extreme where the server has more than 6-8 high levels, the Tanks are practically devoured. Also I think that Spitters are not bulletproof anymore (miss them).

About the Low lvls... I think I'm still one, but I make my best effort to help. It's true that there are some that bother a lot on the servers thinking that they're playing Single Player (hate when playing with safe doors and talk like they're chewing the mic). It has happened to me more than once and I kind understand your anger, so I would agree to limit the servers according to the difficulty of each one of them. Most for the fully entertaiment of all, it's a game after all.

I think picked you up once a time ago when I didn't have the skill/upgrade yet (sorry about that) So I know that it was annoying but I learned somehow, didn't know about all thing then.

 

Indeed...
When it comes to tanks, I'll have to agree with you, Normal tanks should have their health increased and paranoia ones should be immune to melee or whatever...
Now, when it comes to server limitation, I can't agree with you. See, usually, low level players die, as a result, they get bored and eventually bug off. Besides, if you "ban" them they are likely to not play there again, they wouldn't feel motivated to (they would feel excluded, and eventually "mad"), therefore they would just quit and play in another server.
Well, that's my opinion. Personally I have much more fun when I have to repeat the map once or twice
so if you could toughen things a bit, i would appreciate.
That's all.

 

A good player lvl 60+ can help more than someone under lvl 50 can. You do know what you are supposed to do and act accordingly. I can't say that about a lvl 20.

And you would prefer to play with a handicap just to please a lvl 1 that won't return to the server cause "it's to hard and demanding?" That is why Regular COOP is for. To teach them the basics, leveling, skills, to improve their character, etc. When they actually know what they are doing then they can play Extreme. It's just like in any other situation. Would you give a guy that just learned how to drive a F1 car and send him at Monte Carlo to compete in a race? i know i wouldn't.

So far, the whole gameplay of Extreme when low lvls are present (i mean lvl 1-50) is one-sided. The low lvls get protection from the high lvls when possible, they get free EXP through our charity skill and map finales if they are alive and they get toasters, sometimes. What do we get in return? Almost nothing, if you don't count the 5 bounty and some exp for picking them up when in-capped. other than that? Oh..i forgot, the pleasure of starting the next round with no kits and low hp...or to lose almost all hp trying to save him while a spiter makes a puddle under you both..

 

I'm just gonna keep this post short coz i just woke up and i can't be bothered writing too much so i'll get straight to the main points..

1) Yes regular tank should have more HP

2) Paranoia tank is easy to kill if people mele it BUT there is a problem if it becomes immune to mele dmg .. There are loads of people who like to farm on the finales by hanging about waiting to kill the tanks for multi toasters + Gem and molo spamming so if the tank becomes immune to mele dmg then people will most likely fail to complete the finale and will have to do it again which means they will get more tanks, more multi toasters, more gems and more exp with molo spamming and the others will get the free exp from charity. Mind you, i know some people who LIKE to fail on the finales so they get to play the finale again for more exp and they don't fail once or twice, they even fail 5-6 times ..

3) I have also noticed that on some places, there are no SI/CI so something needs to be done about that.

4) I'm not sure on all this level restriction thing, i know where your coming from but low level plays have as much right to play on the servers as high levels but you might say again, they can play on the coop but we have to put ourself in their place and think about it .. We were low level players too once and what if we were low levels right now and people called us low level noobs all of the time , kicked us off the server for being a "noob" just because we didn't have the maxed out skills and upgrades. I get annoyed too at low levels every now and then but mainly on the VS server when some low level gets the tank and dies but since we're talking about low levels on the Extreme server, let me point out, just because we have all of the upgrades and the skills, it doesn't mean we are better players than low levels (technically), we're just better because we have upgrades.

And what if MG decides to have another server called Extreme Extreme server where you get triple or quadruple exp/points and each tank drops 2-3 multi toasters and you are guaranteed to win 2 gems for killing each tank but decide to have a level limit of 180, would these so called "high" level players feel justice then? No they won't, why? Because they want that exp, points, gems etc so same can be said about the Extreme server where you get more exp than Coop. The reason why Helms deep had a level restriction was because Helms deep is much tougher than a Extreme server. You are more likely to make it alive on the Extreme server with 8-10 low levels than HD. I know it is difficult with low levels but that's part of the game..

 

Well, i really don't care if i have to pick up a level 1 player in the begining of the map, it's just a game, you are supposed to have fun, if you were a low level player you would like to be assisted as well.
You see when low levels play in extreme coop eventually they understand that is too hard for them and they realize they need to level up, learn the basics...and they will play in not so hard servers to accomplish that. (because they will feel motivated to, they want to improve, they want to be like bloodhand or raised and swing their melee in a speed of over 9000mph)... but if you start "banning" low level players, they will just give up, they will think "fuck it" i'll play in another server instead, are you getting the idea? People don't like to be excluded, i know i don't. And remember you were a "noob" once, you started as a level 1 player, just like them...
High level players will stop playing (i guess, people get bored, eventually) and new players will be needed and if you go "banning" low levels you will push them away and then, i'm affraid, you will have no one to play with.

 

About the tanks,i need to agree with Raised in hell,although i love to play the rooftop more than once,i do understand.

About the low levels,i'm getting a bit frustrated about that and i'm not even talking about the healing...
I posted in the chat before about that.
I don't know the exact numbers anymore but from the 11 players there were like 7 players under level 8!
And i never had so many questions about crawling and knife buffs from low levels in Extreme coop then anywhere else.
And low levels try to change difficulty,it can't be done but still,why do you join extreme coop if you want to change difficulty...

I was a noob once(still am sometimes ) and i'm happy to see this server is so nice to them, but you can be a to friendly server.
2 Extreme(Extreme...the word says it all...) servers for high levels is not to much asked IMHO

 

Okay since you wanted the opinion of the community here's mine:

1. Yes I agree that normal tanks on Extreme Coop are too weak, bring back the old one (Not sure when it was removed, tank with shockwave attacks, Corrosive rocks, and "Evolutions" that remove fire) I haven't played in a while so I have no idea about the melee immunity of the paranoia tanks being removed, but anyway since normal tanks get owned by melee all the time I think paranoia tanks should be immune (or at least 70, 80% resistant) to make it harder since well they are paranoia tanks.

2. Yeah, please increase CI/SI spawn at the end of the maps.

3. Level limitation: No please, MG is a community for all, even the new people (In fact we should be welcoming them) If a new player tried to join and not be allowed to because he was new and thus low level he might not come to the servers anymore (because he didnt see the others and just went to join another one) We should just have a popup message to players below level 50 that SUGGEST them to join the regular COOP server to level up before joining the Extreme one they are currently in. We should always leave it up to them because being reconnected to another server or not being allowed to join might and probably will deter them from joining the community. And also letting new players go onto the Extreme servers will let them have an idea of the importance (and fun) of being high level because they'd see all the high levels in work and how even though situations are so tough they'd still be able to survive and then they will strive to become better (and not to mention understand the mod because of teaching from the high levels [hopefully] ).
It is frustrating to play with low levels but sometimes you just need to bear with it, instead of getting very frustrated about it and posting "Level limitations please." all over the forum. Honestly, it's behaviour like this that resulted in changes like the Tank heal increase and other stuff.. Not saying that its your fault or anything, everyone wants to complain about things they don't like but just leave it that way, unless really, MAJORITY of the community wants the changes.

Just my opinion.

 

You guys have all been spoiled by PR. Do you remember in regular L4D2 when you ALWAYS got 30 health when picked up? That is the way it is supposed to be. In real life, if you get knocked out by a punch in the face, when you wake back up, are you ready right then to go fight again? No, you need to rest, and you are going to be weak. Why don't you try playing on VI sometime and see some REAL teamwork. Vulcan, kaos and the gang have amazing teamwork. Besides, getting up with 30 health is like playing on expert non-PR. A few hits and you are back down. You just have to keep getting up and moving on. And if you die, you die. That's why it is called extreme.

 

I can remember you or another admin made an proposal about Extreme coop and level limitations,a whole page long with a lot of bright colors..(who,what a sad describsion.. )
I can't find it anymore though.

I'm not gonna kick low levels,but i still don't think its asking to much to have a level limit on Extreme coop,i understand you need to make some money,from low levels to,but gameplay should be fun to,for EVERYBODY.
As low levels can enter every server i don't think they gonna feel 2 (only) high level servers.

With all respect,i love these servers!

 

http://mgftw.com/showthread.php/483...r-access-to-certain-levels.?p=39345#post39345

Thank me later!

 

That's some really good drawing skills you got there LEGEND

 

I never thought that would happen but I agree with smoke.

Tanks are a joke. Especially the paranoa tank makes no sense when its so easy to kill.
I 'd like them to be harder.
Yeah; I admit I only play coop because I want gems (and some easy xp). Nothing more; i dont like coop. But when I play coop I'd like to have at least some kind of a challenge so I dont fall asleep.
For the "fail on purpose guys": Maybe the rewards for killing a paranoa tank should be higher then so it's worth the long fight. (e.g. higher chance of getting a gem)

Low levels: Totaly agree with smoke; low levels on the extreme coop are a pain in the ass. A few days ago we had like 5 or 6 players below lvl 10. Playing a finale with so many low lvl players is no fun. I am against level restrictions for the other servers but on extreme it should be mandatory. Or at least blend in a suggestion like "your level is way too low for this server. Play on our normal coop server to have more fun"

 

That was what i was describing
Thanks LEGEND

 

I agree with you that the paranoia tanks are to easy now. It was defiantly fun to actually fun kiting a paranoia tank instead of everyone just gangbanging it now. I think the main issue with paranoia tanks on extreme is their earthquake attack. A tank that can kill 10 people with one earthquake due to fall damage isn't appealing. So why not remove that attack and restore the melee resistance?

I agree with the infected spawns on some of the maps as well... not a huge issue, but it can be fixed.

I cant agree with your limitations, Less than a month ago I was level 1 on the LA extreme server and switched between the extreme and the versus servers to level up to where I am at now. I had to play on the LA servers because of my geographical location. USA servers are to far away even though i live in the states(hawaii). There is not a problem with the level of the people coming in, but with some of their styles of gameplay. That, we cannot change. We have high level players whose gameplay ethics are like that of a low-level. If they are breaking the rules or screwing your team over, then kick them. [unless they are donors too, omg so many new low-level donors who think they can get away with team killing and kill stealing on versus lately] MGFTW also benefits from new players who are potential donors.

and to be honest. I get more exp and points when 10 low-levels are online than 10 high levels ;3 babysitting has its benefits lol

 

Just put the damn level limit already. If you wanna welcome new players, welcome them on the normal co-op server. And I'm sure they won't go away simply because they got rejected on that particular server.

"babysitting has its benefits lol"

What happens to babysitting if the low-lvls wasted all the kits, and you don't have bounty to buy a new one, and a paranoid tanks bashes you all the time? I know. You die! And after you - all the low-lvls. What happens after? The finale get restarted, and the whole thing happens again.

"I get more exp and points when 10 low-levels are online than 10 high levels"

WOW! How come I'm not earning more xp from low-lvls that high, and I play almost all the time on extreme (with low-lvls)?

 

yeah, 10 low lvls with minimal damage to SI that kill max of 50 CI on a map and no charity do give better XP than 10 High lvls that kill 150-200 CI and 20-25 SI/round and have at give at least 10% xp..in a perfect world that is...

I got killed several times today and last night trying to save a lowlie that couldn't even crawl. Smokers, hunters, chargers are just waiting for someone o go back and try to save someone. Was it worth saving him? no. i missed out on the tank, and the end of the map xp cause of that lowlie...

We can't. Marvel just said that was abusing vote-kick. As much as I'd like to do that I don't want to be banned because i vote-kicked some lowlie that was effing up the game for the rest...