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Reviving Versus

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by Tali, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Angel

    Angel MG Donor

    He was talking about removing Negotiator as a buff and just make the prices the same as if everyone had the buff. Besides, the prices for throwables are alright. For instance, we used to have a problem where there was an entire ocean of fire from molotovs everywhere and the infected couldn't go anywhere at all. Pipe traps have a limit now and that is okay too, though the price could be lowered to 9 like the bile jar.

    Anyway, I don't play coop so I'm purely a versus player. You have to treat the servers as separate entities, which has already been mentioned in the thread I think. I assume one of the biggest reasons why a lot of people stopped playing versus is because it started to become more like coop with the fancy tanks, strange buffs and such when we had already established a meta for it.
    Duncan, timkit and Adward like this.
  2. chronic

    chronic New Member

    Agreed with everything you said. And about pipe bombs, and im talking about those ones that combined with other buffs you can instantly kill someone or explode a car, should have a limit to prevent spamming too. I saw some people complaining about and i kinda agree with that can be really annoying. Since the price was already increased to prevent such thing once, i dont think it solved the problem but just reduced a bit what used to be a pipefest before. So i believe lowering price and increasing the limit to 3/5 to be wisely used and not just spammed all the time.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  3. Duncan

    Duncan New Member

    My suggestion for now is to wait and test the new server and then analyze the balance of prices and such.

    The price of the molos in VS was increased long ago (at my request to the old head admin) since it was very frustrating to see how the survivors would rush all the way to the SR by spamming molos and pipe traps, the entire fucking map was on fire making it impossible to get near the survivors with boomers, jockeys or hunters and the spawn locations and the doors were covered by pipe traps so charging back or using smokers was useless too, and remember that 1 pipe trap kills all SI in range not just the one who trigger it. In fact, some rounds were like playing in spectator mode cause you would be dead 99% of the time. The prices of pipes and molos seems ok at 12, as for the rest of the items I think we need to play and see how it goes (depending on what HC decides about negotiator and the price increase).

    For example, if the prices don't increase but the medkit price is raised to 15 then it's ok because the average of the first 3 would be the same, or 16 and then the average of the first 5 kits would be the same as with the +1 increase system, the thing is, that with constant values is easier to keep track of the bp needed to buy items without having to check the menu. To make it more clear, when you play as survivor and you are planning to dfib someone you need to have enough for both the dfib and a medkit to heal that survivor right after, otherwise he/she goes B/W right away and die so you can end up wasting those BP, this is why I think that if values increases it's harder to keep track (consider that you are usually with many si and a tank trying to kill you so it's not like you have much time to check that anyway) and you might end up falling short on BP to buy the medkit after and all the effort is wasted, but if values are constant then you will always know that you need 32-34 BP to get both dfib and medkit.

    Also, and this might be something to consider, after a few survivors are killed in a long round the price increase makes things even worse because the number of SI is constant from start to end so you have to face 8-10 SI with 4-6 survivors, usually by then you have no knives left and a medkit would cost you like 25-30 bp, I mean, when the infected kills one survivor they get the number advantage they need to finish them, so there is no need to add the impossibility to buy health items. Ofc this could make the rounds longer and harder on the SI since the survivors will heal more often and dfib others all the time, but if the infected team takes advantage of those moments when they outnumber the survivors (and make them waste their knives) with some good teamplay from their part and some good slaps they have a victory assured.
    timkit and Tali like this.
  4. fufu

    fufu Junior Member

    it has been many years of playing the game
    lots of thing are long forgotten
    but thanks for bring back the fragments of memories of the good old time
    it surly occurs to me that there was a time when I used to throw pipe and Molotov a lot
    but for tactical reasons that I am not yet ready to reveal
    it was so much fun
    and after so many years
    do I realize that how my behaviors made you feel at the time
    I can not help laughing thinking about it
    but please do not get me wrong
    not laughing at you
    its just it was so many fun moments that we had at that time
  5. fufu

    fufu Junior Member

    as a inf at the time
    of course many sur throw molo and pipe and set the pipe trap everywhere
    please forgive my memory about the timeline
    for the server has changed so many times and so much
    I do not remember feeling any difficult about all those fire and explosions
    not saying I am better or anything like that
    it was the time when Wet Skin and Regeneration of tank still works
    and tank still have a chance getting in the safe room and kill all the surv
    or tank could be bought more then one at a time
    then stop surv throwing things all the way
    and helping other inf at the same time
    and for the rushers at the time
    it was way easier to kill rushers or slow them down with tanks at front

    All that I am saying is that what gets VS server today
    all started with Nerf and limitation
    at the end
    it has proved it self its just a bad circulation to suffocation
    I can recall now
    there was this big Modification I already forgot when
    that really got me mad
    it was the time when a good and long tank fight with survives is no longer seen ever since

    but I love MG servers
    so I kept playing
    pretty soon people get adept to the new settings
    people learned to play the game with the new settings of the server
    and then comes with many times of new updates of the server
    rushing become the key to win
    but it is really boring rushing through all the way

    once again I must say that
    the recent years of hard works and efforts done by the MG admins
    are all focusing on improving the playing environment of MG servers
    I really feels it
    and I am thankful for it
    coop servers are really more fun then ever
    usually cant find an empty slot is the best prove

    at the same time
    VS server is as good as dead
    caused by the reason which I personally from modification
    started and base on some personal issues
    there is no absolute right or wrong settings about the server
    only the result of the playing states of the server

    how do you fix something that is already broken from the beginning
    it is going to be difficult
  6. timkit

    timkit MG Donor

    While we are on the topic of Reviving VS here, the clan wars server that used to be on mgftw since, sometime last year and since it existed back several years ago back when mgftw was very popular with Old Versus or so was removed from sourcebans, I just can't remember when it was removed though during that year or whether it happened this year.

    I wanted to mention about clan wars servers here since some of you old Versus players might remember having played it in the past. However, since its very unlikely that past this point the idea of clan war servers returning is but a memory lost within the void forever you could consider this case closed.

    Clan Wars as a word still exists, but only within the clan tank and within the clan war benefits recently up until now. The reason for that was because in order to unlock the Clan Tank's full potential on versus, you had to spend Victory Points (from having won clan wars matches) and clan cash on the tank abilities you wanted for the clan tank. Also, the clan war benefits are only for Clan Wars Versus matches, not the normal ones.

    Still I wonder if anything from the clan wars servers could be taken, whether that be any tactics for the survivors and or for infected that can be learned from for when it happens in normal versus matches.
  7. Duncan

    Duncan New Member

    haha you noob :D we all spammed molos in the past, I remember I had several pages of pyromaniac awards :P
    but my point there was that when they added the pipe traps and similar stuff it was impossible to get near the survivors in some maps, what you mention was from before that version (back when we were able to buy tanks and witches inside the SR). I don't think you were playing during that month or 2 that we had that issue, it was around the time of the boomer trap bug. you can trust me, when the other team had all donors with an arsenal of pipe traps and molos it was impossible to get near them in some closed maps (back then all of them were like 6bp or so), and jockeys, hunters and boomers died right away cause of the fire, and chargers and smokers were victims of the pipes. It's one thing when you use all of that to get a moment of peace and heal and dfib and another when they turn the map into a minefield inferno lol, I don't like limits either because in long rounds you might need more than 2 or 3, but idk, maybe a timer of a few minutes on the traps or a timer to buy them from the shop. Still, idk if it's going to be an issue again so we need to play and see how it goes first
  8. timkit

    timkit MG Donor

    Tried to get a VS game up and running last night by inviting players, and about 90% of players i've talked to declined the invites.

    VS Server was inviting players too: EU VS

    Players I tried to invite to VS: 26

    Players I talked to that accepted the VS invites: 3

    Players I talked to that declined the VS invites: 17

    Maybe: 6 players (all 6 did not come)

    Overall number of accepted invites: 3
    Overall number of declined invites: 23

    Players that didnt respond at all:

    When comparing overall number of players
    11.5% of players invited accepted the invite last night.
    65.3% of players invited declined the invite last night.
    23.1% of players invited said maybe to the invite (all 6 didn't come)

    When comparing 20 players (this excludes the count of maybe players)
    15% of players invited accepted the invite last night.
    85% of players invited declined the invite last night.

    When including the players that said maybe (given all 6 declined)
    11.5% of players invited accepted the invite last night.
    88.5% of players invited declined the invite last night.

    Some of those reasons for players who declined invites
    - Too busy on COOP and / or Custom COOP
    - Busy in real life
    - Didn't like VS and or didn't want to go because of high ping.

    Overall? not surprising me at all. This was attempted during 10 - 11pm GMT+8 since 8 to 9 hours ago. Therefore it seems that your only more likely to get more VS invites accepting if say HonorCode was on the server and or if there is a VS only event currently running on the server.

    Otherwise, most people are highly likely to decline invites, since the majority of players invited into VS were COOP / Custom COOP players rather than VS and the other 2 mode players and VS only players generally. This proves why the popularity of VS is low and is going to be forever low for a very long while without the need for change in reviving VS.

    I will be doing more invites again to VS over the course of this weekend and next weekend given that HonorCode's update to VS comes soon.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  9. HonorCode

    HonorCode Head Administrator Staff Member

    I have applied most of the changes that I mentioned now. The normal tank regen health will be boosted if it is too slow. Please, also consider the existence of the Healer Spitter that can heal 300HP/s on max level via the acid pools.

    Will continue to implement suggestions on saturday night (my local time)

    PS: I made a change to the score system as well. Each alive survivor adds 300 points and defibrillator discounts 45 points on each res. Now everyone is important.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
    Horama and timkit like this.
  10. Horama

    Horama MG Donor

    Personaly my favorite weapon on htx stats stay molotov unless some years it was nerfed XD
    You can add Tank cannot explosed car , nerfed coz i OS jones and surv team
    etc ... i'm agree with fufu , it's long story of nerf , we have the return of M60 on coop by example
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  11. HonorCode

    HonorCode Head Administrator Staff Member

    I have made a couple more changes. Here is the current state:

    Fix now:
    //-Slow bounty reward to respecting cooldown [done]
    //-Slow bounty reward is earned by survivors [done]
    //-Increase slap power a bit more [done]
    //-Adjust special tanks [done]
    //-Normal tank buffs not working [done]
    -Spitter bonus damage on incap still applying [pending]
    //-They prefer a cooldown on AOE revive rather than normal revive [done]
    //-Nerf drainer tank [pending]
    //-Only allow paranoia, ice and electric for now. [done]
    //-Only 2 tanks max if special is present [done]
    //-Tank still goes to random, fix it [done]
    //-Remove tank slayer [done]
    -A way to differentiate coop only buffs
    -Make E teleport to the front
    //-Remove SI and survivor bots from the game. If surivors < infected, increase respawn interval. [done]
    //-Change tank limit dynamically (the more survivors, the more tanks are allowed to spawn) [done]
    //-Remove wearables from versus [done]
    -Restore pathing on c2m2.
    Horama and Angel like this.
  12. [DFS] Unstable

    [DFS] Unstable Junior Member

    This is what I remember about the times on VS, before it started to die:
    I would look forward to playing with a ton of players in a huge, chaotic battle. As a survivor, I would feel invincible as I got beat around and would do my best to help other players survive. As a tank, I would feel big and powerful, capable of striking fear into even the most experienced survivors. As a regular infected, I felt sneaky and dangerous, picking off stragglers and rushers. I would often start laughing at the mess each team was causing for the opposing team. That's what I miss. The long, tough and extremely fun battles. When VS started to die out, I asked timkit and a few other players if they knew why. They said it was because a big group of VS players eventually lost interest or were busy with their personal life. I don't think it was because it got stale and boring, because it never did for me, I think it's just because people grow and change and eventually don't have time or become interested in other things. These are the battles I remember:
    Tali likes this.
  13. Tali

    Tali MG Donor

    Jones' videos always remind me of the old versus. Hope we can have these games again soon too :) I missed them a lot~!!
  14. Angel

    Angel MG Donor

    Most of those clips in the video are from 2014 and back when most of us were still there. It's the same type of versus that we can have today, with a few changes that are more than welcome. We had quite a bit of fun the other day with an almost full server when HC rolled out the first updates, it now feels more like how it was before (but we still have a way to go, we need more players after all).

    The reasons why versus died are many - one of the reasons being what you just mentioned; that a large group of veterans quit playing and other things that happened. Anyone who was there in 2014 can tell you what happened, but that is all in the past now. Fast forward to now, and we have a chance to revive the server. Positive thinking.
  15. fufu

    fufu Junior Member

    first things first
    PLEASE DONT nerf drainer tank anymore

    1.it has already low on HP
    2.possible and can be killed within less than 10s
    3.it takes more skills and thinking even compares with normal tank right now
    rather then just keep punching for its low HP

    for the entire history of MG server
    the only special tank ive ever used and only used twice
    nerf it means another useless tank nobody wanna use anymore

    the reason why i used it as the only special tank

    1.not too powerful compare with others
    2.players would have more will to fight whenever sees a tank like that
    3.way more fun to play hide and seek with surv
  16. fufu

    fufu Junior Member

    only play one round today
    and I have to say
    thank you for the effort HC

    but did not get many chance to test a lot
    only a few things

    being a surv
    1. ya , we can kill normal tanks now WITH a good fight
    and even with multiple tanks at a time

    2.has not tested buying system a lot yet
    only bought med kit have not had the chance to try def yet

    3.with more then 2 tanks at the scene at the same time
    picking people up still takes cooling down time still looks unnecessary to me
    cause survs are already easily down when the tank spit boomer and everything else are taking the place all at once

    being an INF
    1.even though i didnt want to buy tank yet, but assigned to be one
    Wet skin is back and its possible to survive in safe room now as a normal tank

    In general
    the fun is coming back
    but many people has doubts caused by the bad experience for the past few years
    was surprised realizing that
    I guess an always full server might change that little by little
  17. fufu

    fufu Junior Member

    the reason i think why price of items should not be rising

    1.In general , i think the current setting of INF are strong and powerful enough
    to balance the SURV side is to give them more HOPE
    such as
    med kit to heal
    picking up the downs
    bring back the dead

    2.especially defibrillator

    As an surv
    i save all the bounties i earned
    not buying med kit or anything else to heal
    but buying that expensive and price rising def to bring people back
    meanwhile take the risk of getting attack while defibing

    for one , win the round together (mostly to kill tanks just for the pleasure )
    two , for those new players or low levels do not rage quit very soon cause they are dead and dont have anything else to play with

    As an inf
    dont feel mad that surv you just kill are back
    one thing that you can blame on is that you didnt watch them closely enough
    while feeling comfy , easy and happy wondering around

    there wont be and hasnt been a long and endless game
    If the teams are balanced
    even whole survs made to the saferoom
    or entire team is wiped out
    the number of rage quitter would have decrease to minimum
  18. chronic

    chronic New Member

    About the VS server crashing and stuff. I think should take a closer look about what could be possibly causing such issues and etc. Some people say its because of buffs, and when i was testing some stuff in an empty server these days, server crashed too and i was just practicing as hunter. Idk what could be related or not, i remember some time ago had this map bug in Dead Center 3rd map i guess that was causing crash for some reason. The only map now isnt crashed at least for me is dark carnival, but i dont know if someone experienced any issues there.

    That said, that's one of the reasons that could kill a server. From my own point of view, since i started playing here, when we try to invite people and fill the server and then randomly crashes/crashing to desktop, most likely people wouldnt bother join again for whatever reason. I know sometimes is kinda inevitable crashing once or twice per day? Not sure. But those crashes that people are experiencing now arent the "usual".
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  19. fufu

    fufu Junior Member

    EU VS server crashing
    1. MAP : dead center second map
    LOCATION : where we deliver coke before the gas truck which is about to exploded
    POSSIBLE CAUSE : a bot smoker shows up try to uses its tongue (was testing this alone do not know if it crashes with all human inf players)
    CRASH RATE : 100%
    if all surv die at this spot , map stuck

    2. MAP : mercy hospital final map
    LOCATION : on the final roof inside the radio room
    POSSIBLE CAUSE : some player smoker uses its tongue
    CRASH RATE : 100%

    still strongly suspicious about some new smoke buff which also equipped on bot smoker
    please check independent tongue buff

    3. MAP : dead center final map
    LOCATION : on the start in the saferoom
    POSSIBLE CAUSE : smoker uses its tongue
    CRASH RATE : 100%
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  20. timkit

    timkit MG Donor

    HonorCode, about the ASIA VS server, the updated version on there (V1.6.4.1) isn't the same as the EU VS one (V1.6.5.0). Would it be possible to update it to reflect the EU version with those changes?

    BTW, me and xero discovered a few bugs in versus yesterday and the other day just incase you didn't know.

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