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[PR - VOTE] Should Tanks earn Bounty on Versus?

Discussion in '[L4D2] Points Reloaded' started by HonorCode, Jul 12, 2013.

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  1. HonorCode

    HonorCode Head Administrator Staff Member

    Tanks are without doubt what defines a team victory if used correctly and that is why they shouldn't be in-game right away.

    Survivors must cooperate with each other to travel the most distance before giving the infected enough bounty for a tank.

    When a user is playing as a tank, the amount of bounty they earn is particularly insane, allowing them to buy more and more tanks, witches, blind people and more.

    We are planning on introducing new items for the infected to buy with bounty, so this is also a concern for balance.

    My question is, what if tanks didn't earn bounty?

    This way, other players would have to do their best to earn bounty and spawn another two tanks to maximize impact on the survivors.

    Please give your opinion out and cast your vote on top of this post.

    Thanks for taking the time :D
     
  2. Adward

    Adward Game Server Moderator Staff Member

    Voted no:

    Right now, Tanks pretty much own PR-VS. When the first tank goes up with a high level player, it's inevitable another is coming fast (Once I've bought a tank for myself, it'll be about a minute max before I'm buying another). Once three tanks are up, unless the survivors play an absolute blinder and the infected are awful, it's over for the survivors.

    The ease of getting the three tanks up is probably the biggest factor in why people rush - people want to hit as many points as possible before the tank comes in and calls in more.

    So yeah, force PR players to give a bit of strategic thought to when they buy tanks. What sort of infected items are you planning on introducing?
     
  3. HonorCode

    HonorCode Head Administrator Staff Member

    Here are a few concept ideas (just ideas, do not freak out :P).

    -Enable SF tank spawns -> Enable tank spawns inside saferoom areas
    -Increase Inf Damage 50% (30s) -> Increases infected (SI and CI) damage by 50% for 30 seconds
    -Increase Inf Damage 100% (30s) -> Increases infected (SI and CI) damage by 100% for 30 seconds
    -Break goggles (All round) -> Breaks all players Goggles for the rest of the round
    -Give Drain Ability (75s) -> Gives the Drain ability to a random tank (Drainer Tank like) [Takes highest HP tank as priority]
    -Perm Regeneration (60s) -> Allows regeneration of all infected to ignore fire and recently damage taken (Always regenerate)
    -Spawn Clotting Witch -> Spawns a witch with the "Clot" bacteria inside here. (New status, very dangerous)

    Note that I didn't mention the price so consider the most OP items hard to get.
     
  4. marvel

    marvel Head Administrator Staff Member

    I voted yes but I meant to vote no ;)

    I agree there are way too many tanks on versus.
     
  5. Adward

    Adward Game Server Moderator Staff Member

    Looks interesting, though ones like Perm Regeneration and Drainer would have to be tank-level priced to keep it good, as 60-75 seconds is a LOT of time in Versus.
     
  6. Stefeman

    Stefeman Head Administrator Staff Member

    I also meant to vote for "NO" though i pressed "YES" earlier.
     
  7. JavCube

    JavCube MG Donor

    Personally I think the low lvls will suffer more with this...

    Also when tanks got into a closed SR with some survivors, and no bounty gaining = Tank Rape... SI cannot help the tank in there.

    Just my opinion.

    -Jav
     
  8. Y o u

    Y o u Member

    Vote YES!!!

    It's already hard enough to get bounty when you aren't a spitter or a boomer or farming with a charger. (Holding ctrl and spamming the right click. Each pick up is 2 bounty.)

    When someone loses control of a tank some of us lose it as well so I have to get the bounty I earned from the tank to buy another damn tank. ORRRR just fix the bug? RIGHT?!?
     
  9. Steph

    Steph Game Server Moderator



    -Enable SF tank spawns -> OMG Yes! I pray for Shaman all the time just to teleport in with the rushers.
    -Increase Inf Damage 50% (30s) -> Maybe, if the poison buff wasn't so constant.
    -Increase Inf Damage 100% (30s) -> Maybe, if the poison buff wasn't so constant.
    -Break goggles (All round) -> No, my goggles were expensive lol
    -Give Drain Ability (75s) -> Not for tanks
    -Perm Regeneration (60s) -> Will this mean you won't need the buff?
    -Spawn Clotting Witch -> Inside where? lol
    -Teleport rushers back to group -> Yes
    -Auto slay rushers -> Yes lol
    -Exclusive store bought only buff slot unlocks -> Yes
    -Return the spawn tank in middle of people -> Yes
    -Add a counteracting poison buff for surv -> Yes
    -Seperate/scramble Runjohn and rushdat when on same team -> Yes

    Other then that I can't think of anything at the moment. I just lose motivation to play when certain people rush all day long everyday. So I do hope something is added to stop rushers. It's pretty much my top priority and I hope others agree.



    Edit: Thanks for finally adding my aim spawn option <3
     
  10. Duncan

    Duncan New Member

    Well, its very simple, just remove the option of buying tanks while you are one. We can't buy heal anymore remember? And we can't buy witches near survivors (wich is all the time when you play as a tank because if you stay away you will lose control in no time). So there's no need to keep pushing against the poor tank, after all, the only thing they can do is buy vomit on survivors every now and then. And it's not easy to get the BP to buy a tank in the first place, with the latest changes spitter/boomer/charger regerates their "action bar" (or whatever the name is) slower than before, we dont have the boomer trap anymore (not a useful one anyway), and it's not like you get a lot of bp for incaping a survivor, so we have to work hard to get the tank in time to stop them.

    I think versus shouldn't be "pro" survivors in any way, teamwork should be the key if they want reach the saferoom. Players who wants to survive every map maybe should play coop instead. (btw I tried the new coop and looks much more better, less players and much more SI)

    *maybe instead of having the buying tank option (while playing as a tank) we could add the option to buy some Extinguisher Bile for for ourselves, its not the same as buying heal, but it may help.

    We need the tank spawn inside the SR so it's cool that you have that on your list, what I cant understand is if you are suggesting adding the SR as a free zone to buy them or adding a specific buy option to get a tank inside.

    A drainer for 75 seconds??? you get that in a small place like a SR and you kill all surv just by walking :S maybe if it is set not to be draining as much as the one from HD will be ok

    Break goggles: nice, we give more BP and recibe more damage from the boomers, we still get the dark screen when they vomit on us, and now for a few bp they can break the damn things. Those RayBan are expensive you know :P

    @JavCube: agree, but with or without BP you cant buy anything useful inside the SR as a tank, so, a few good survivors will kick our tank ass most of the times.

    Some bugs
    * Ammo bug happening in coop and VS. and for some reason when I play as a tank I dont always regenerate hp :S



    "-Seperate/scramble Runjohn and rushdat when on same team -> Yes" :clap2: ROFL, and burial Coder and Skaank too
     
  11. Adward

    Adward Game Server Moderator Staff Member

    Good idea on the not being able to buy tanks as a tank - that would help massively. I don't have a problem with tanks recieving bounty per se - just the fact that once one is bought, it's going to be a VERY short time before three are up.

    Perhaps still have tank buys as a tank but reduce how quickly tanks gain bounty? No need to fully restrict the bounty-earning ability of tanks, just dampen it enough so that they're not the machines they are now.

    Yeah, overall I'd have to go for tanks getting bounty now, but with limitations. Consider my vote the other way >.>

    ANYTHING that smacks rushers down a bit is cool with me, although allowances should be made for mains who decide to make a last-ditch attempt to get points on the board. There's nothing quite like being down to the last two members, and you being the last main, and deciding to run - and THEN making it to the saferoom rushing through half a map of chargers/smokers/hunters/etc. Shit's cash.


    so much hate @ the "nooby" reputation coop has. sure, on the whole it's easier for versus, but we NEED that ease for low-level gamers, or they'd just leave entirely. I'd be wary about making coop too hard, as it might alienate players who aren't yet ready for versus.

    anyway, Supreme Shamans (and arguably Shamans too) are on par with ANYTHING versus can throw at you, especially with the new 10-player max.
     
  12. Duncan

    Duncan New Member

    I have knowledge about coop Adward, I've played a lot of coop when I was low lvl back in 2011, and more casually the las times, my point is, if players feel that VS have too OP infected they should play coop until they lvl up, or just learn that its all about teamwork.

    I play coop when Im bored, I dont hate it, but I do hink its just a way to lvl up for new players until they get enough skills to play VS, after that it may be funny every now and then, but it will never have the heat of versus. And yes, events used to be challenging and funny, but we dont have those now, at least I never read about new coming events here or in the steam group. And I already said thet I liked the way it is now, less players and more SI but not the super dupper OP SI that we used to see.

    I would really like that MG consider just removing the chance to buy another tank while you are one instead of the other option. I fought a few times inside the SR today, they killed me every time because they can buy medkits and pills and as a tank you cant buy anything but bile, so maybe the option of being able to buy vomit on yourself to turn the fire off it's a good idea too. And going back to the "inf can get tanks too fast" A few minutes ago I ended up a map with 2800 damage and still not enough BP for a tank (42)

    And I guess most of us dislike the fact that some players rush everytime even when they are not mains. But sometimes you get dumb mains staying back and never moving foward :S Buying tanks in the SR fix this issue, and lets face it, most of us have been whining about it since they remove the chance to do it.

    btw, I'm having trouble hitting incap ppl with the para tank, maybe it's just me that i suck but i dont have that problem with regular tanks :S
     
  13. Adward

    Adward Game Server Moderator Staff Member

    Don't take it as a diss dude, it's just that coop has functions for high and low-level gamers. :)

    Yeah, saferoom tanks get absolutely SMASHED atm, even with the saferoom buff. Case in point: myself (36k HP), and Phobia iirc (20-something) got into the saferoom, but were absolutely massacred.

    Buying tanks inside the saferoom is pretty much the most wanted thing for some people, can't disagree :P

    More buyables for player tanks is fine by me.
     
  14. Tricky

    Tricky MG Donor

    Mmm, that bug keeps me from playing as much as I used to. In EVERY FPS game I play I reload at every given opportunity for the security of a full clip (and I'm sure others do too.) You get no such thing on MG, instead you get penalized for playing how you normally would.
     
  15. Duncan

    Duncan New Member

    I reload a lot too, something that I got from my days of Counter Strike. That was fixed, its bugged again since the day of the valve update.
    I see more ppl voted NO, I would like to have the names of those people, my tank want to talk to them in game -.- :smiley-angry009:
     
  16. tank

    tank MG Donor

    All its cool ideas, but remeber that now on some maps spawn around 6-7 tanks in one some maps, i know they cant spawn all together but anyway if people "survivors" need the fight 5-6 tanks (usualy lvl214-215 'cos people pass tanks this days :D) any round is to much for survivor,special with mutation,poison,ci,and si, comparing reduced defib speed and heal and revival speed from floor like before old times.
    You should put tank limit (3) like was before 'cos enought is now 3 tanks and 2 from console last maps.

    Tank was before 15000K today is 47000K, guys if you think that you cant do good job with 40 K just pass it to someone else to do, i pass sometimes to.
    One Lvl.215 tank today 47K HP with wet skin,saferoom manheym,double regen (500 hp per sec),poison and paralize do very good damage to the survivors this days, the point is how you play ,do you attack or just wait the shoot you.
    Para to, need just attack and not stop and throwing rocks since mind control rock reduced.

    Spawn tank in saferoom nice
    Give Drain Ability (overpowered if 7 tanks)

    Today high lvl normal tank kill good and resist longer then para and shaman my meaning no ned to agree -.-

    Voted no on pole due the tank limit 5 (5+2)
     
  17. tank

    tank MG Donor

     
  18. Duncan

    Duncan New Member

    Yeah, I think 5 tanks its too much. What I want is keep the gaining of BP, now bile cost much more than before, and its the only thing you can buy while play as a tank. Im not saying tanks should have a buy menu, what I'm saying is that if thanks are getting that the way to fix the problem is to eliminate the chance to buy tanks as a tank. The buy vomit for yourself its just an idea, since we cant buy heal anymore you cant take some time to go to the door and wait for a boomer to turn your fire off, youll die before that, so it will be useful the chance to just buy that with bp. youll gonna die anyway, but not as quick as it is now.

    I remember what youre telling me, and yes, its the same thing. It doesnt happen all the time, but a few times found myself going form full hp to 5k in a few seconds and with no regen at all. Sometimes I can't hit survivors right after buying the tank, it takes a while and during that time all I can do is throw rocks.

    Beyond all details, if the other team gets the 7 tanks, or just 5 at the same time, drainer or no drainer you are screwed lol
     
  19. Still green in PR VS, but have a basic knowledge of how it tends to work out. Tanks seem to determine how the game ends. I believe that the tank is the most important asset in the infected team, and that one should sacrifice all or most bounty in a round to use a tank.
    Certain maps with cars allow tank users to earn enough bounty to buy multiple tanks in a matter of seconds, which makes things quite impossible for the surviving team. im sure many agree that many rush because of this too (oh anyone stuck at the chokehold is not gonna make it, so since im out of the danger zone, i might as well rush).

    Alternatively, i agree with duncan, remove 'buy tank' option as a tank. Makes alot of sense as subsequent tanks are usually and easily spawned by current tank user.

    Break goggles? no, at 2650 gems and 1mil cash, players who bought it deserve it. (personally do not have goggles buff, so you cant say im voting for my benefit)
    SR tank spawn? yes, discourage rushers.
    Drainer? no, definitely not 75 secs, too OP in small areas as duncan pointed out, perhaps around the 20 secs? seems more balanced that way.
    Clot witch? sounds cool, but not sure what 'clot' does.
    Increase SI dmg for 30s? yes, but agree with Steph about poison buff being too constant.
     
  20. Steph

    Steph Game Server Moderator

    Now, in US the tank limit is 3 at a time, but in EU it's 5. So I voted yes to the bounty, since everyone has recently been playing on US. If everyone agrees with removing tank buy while playing as a tank, I can deal with that, but let us keep the bounty because sometimes we just need to bile everyone. It's much easier to kill tanks these days now that buying heal is gone.

    Something seriously needs to be done about losing control too. I lost Shaman 3 times yesterday, twice while in combat, you can imagine my frustration since the % to spawn as Shaman is lower then Para :(
     
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