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Ladder Blocking With Tank & Objects

Discussion in 'Rules & Admin List' started by Bonekeep, May 7, 2011.

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  1. Bonekeep

    Bonekeep Guest

    Blocking with an object like a car or a dumpster is definitely not allowed and should get a temp ban, no warning necessary. But it's a different case when infected attack at a choke point or a ladder. That's just good strategy... but any good survivor team can manage. So in that situation don't expect any admin intervention.
     
  2. LEGEND

    LEGEND Senior Member

    Well said.
    Blocking with an object (when there's no tank) = kick.
    Blocking with infected = nothing.

    We have this on No Mercy Map 3, on the ladder near the saferoom, boomers just block the way. Either the survivors 'get tough' or they die. We shouldn't ban/kick for such a good tactic by the infected.
     
  3. marvel

    marvel Head Administrator Staff Member

    Agree, if tank blocks a ladder just kill him ;)
     
  4. L1teHawk

    L1teHawk Senior Member

    Yes, it's annoying when infected just climb on the ladder and hinder your movement, but at the same time, it's perfectly allowed by the game. It's a strategy you have to overcome.
     
  5. Mr Zombie

    Mr Zombie Senior Member

    I don't think the Tank player should be banned for blocking with his body, I mean, he's just going
    to die real quick (waist of tank) and his own team may kick him but blocking exits with large objects
    like the Trash Boxes or Cars, thats a different matter and a warn, kick then 10 min ban if the player
    still don't listen.

    But what should the Punishment be if they still don't listen ?


    So ok, --

    Blocking

    Blocking Exits (ie. Ladders, Windows, Doors etc) with cars or trash boxes may result in a ban.
    We understand when using a Tank and punching large objects the object can end up blocking
    unintentionally, but we do expect the Tank to then move the Blockage. If the Tank dies and you
    are still blocked, just wait a few minuets and it should go.
    Admin Should: Warn, Kick then 10 min ban if the player still don't listen.


    Im adding the above, but if you (admin!) think I should put it different then say and I will change it :)
     
  6. Nova

    Nova Senior Member

    I still think a warning is needed... I mean not everyone sees blocking the sewer exit of no mercy with a car as an offense. Sure, it does disrupt the fluidity of gameplay, and pretty much condemns the survivors to their terrible fate, but it's part of the game, and it's still strategical. First of all, the tank or charger would have to be able to get a car on top, which is no easy task.

    The point being, not everyone sees it as a immediate-ban offense, but as a method to win. It's possible to do it with some luck, and anyone, I believe, would want to give it a try, because it's basically a one-way ticket to victory.

    @Left4Pie
    I saw the topic yesterday, thanks :D.
    I don't see the link in your reply to my post, so here it is: List of currently active admins
     
  7. Mr Zombie

    Mr Zombie Senior Member

    Most players, from personal experience, when told will unBlock that area and not do it again but the
    thing is a good number of players don't realize that blocking in this way is against the rules, I mean
    Sure they know its annoying but for them that would be half the fun and its because of that I still feel
    a Warn is Required followed by a 10-20 min ban. If they persist in doing this they I would agree a longer
    ban is required.
     
  8. Bonekeep

    Bonekeep Guest

    I have warned prior to banning in the past for blocking, so it's not that I'm opposed to warning. I just don't think a warning should be required. In general, I see two classes of infractions, (1) those that cause disruption or discomfort for players without impacting the outcome of a round or campaign, and (2) those that cause disruption or discomfort for players AND impact the outcome of a round or campaign.

    The first type of rule infractions would include things like inappropriate or offensive names, sprays, avatars, comments, impersonating admin, rage team switching, spamming, griefing, foreign language, etc. These would be offenses that don't directly affect the outcome of a game. For these a warning is appropriate and should be the first step in the process, though it's a judgement call depending on the severity of the action and the history of the player.

    The second type would include rushing, cheating, hacking, bug exploit using, team killing, blocking, high ping, etc. These affect the outcome of the game and in my way of looking at it should be subject to immediate ban if so deemed by an admin. An admin can choose to warn first, but no player should claim that they don't know that they can't do these things.

    If you mandate a warn first, you are giving players an option to do it once with the knowledge that a warn will come first. So if your team is about to get it's ass handed to them in a round by a good survivor team, then you can block a ladder to give your team a chance to do some damage knowing that you'll move it when the admin warns you and in the meantime your team has a chance to do some good damage. Then the other team vows to do the same thing and it escalates... Seen this many times on the ladder out of the sewer in third map of Parish. In my time as player and admin, blocking has incited the angriest responses from players on the server by far.

    Anyways, just wanted to clarify why I'm advocating for excluding the warn requirement, and instead leaving the warning as an option.
     
  9. {BA} L.

    {BA} L. Guest

    I really feel a review of ladder blocking with tank is needed. Any other infected should be okay, even if it is a little cheap, but a fully upgraded tank with 30,000 health or whatever it is sitting on a ladder continuously buying health is much worse than any car. It's cheap, and it's game breaking, and it's practically unkillable when you're being bothered by other SI as it is. I really would like to see a rule about ladder blocking to be adjusted for all to see, as it completely broke the finale of The Sacrifice.
     
  10. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    What they should look into is,

    why some players get 15.6k health tank and some get 40k healkth tank?
    My tank abilities are max out but i sometimes get 15.6k heath or 40k health

    the 40k health can do a prolong period of damage than the 15.6k health tank.
     
  11. Chocobo

    Chocobo New Member


    But even with all of us talking about blocking ladders, how is anything going to change?

    Tons of people do it when the admin are not on the server, and right when the admin leave, they start doing that and other stuff again. Right now there is no perm. way of stopping ladder blocking and other rule breaking like that.

    So the question is whether there is a way to stop people like that without the admin on, because I know the admin can stop them.
     
  12. L1teHawk

    L1teHawk Senior Member

    One idea is to have a timer for an infected on the ladder. A specific amount of time on the ladder would slay the infected.
     
  13. {BA} L.

    {BA} L. Guest

    Love it.
     
  14. bloodhand

    bloodhand MG Donor

    i dont think timer is good idea. with good team u can handle it to get up. for example SI block ladder, shoot up or throw molo. when a wet skin tank block ladder shot up, throw molo or boomer bile. or wait till he lose control and its a bot tank.
    and block ladder with objects is forbidden, right?
    blocking is just good tactic, if the opponent team cant handle it, bad luck :D
     
  15. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    well, i suggest increasing the cost of tank healing,

    as it pretty cheap to buy at 15 everytime to heal up tank.

    so why dont double the price each time tank heals up, like your first heal cost only 15, the next time u wanna heal, it cost u 30 and double again the next time u buy.

    we already apply the rules on survivors buying med kit, so why not on tanks that buy heal.
    thats a guaranteed way of killing tank, provided you have enough players to melee or shoot tank at ladder.

    also, even with timer on ladder, tank can always just get back on top or off the ladder and then get back to the ladder again as the timer will surely reset every time an infected is there.
     
  16. {BA} L.

    {BA} L. Guest

    It's exploitative when you consider a maxed-out tank with a tonne of bounty is harder to shift than any car or dumpster. It just isn't right to allow that.
     
  17. Mr Zombie

    Mr Zombie Senior Member

    Hey

    This is the wrong place for that, This section is for Rules Only. You need to take that to General Issues Section :)


    ah ok, I see where you are coming from now, as I dont play L4D2 I had forgot about the 'buying tank heals'.
    with that taken into account that makes it a bit different and things do IMO need to be handled differently,
    I dont think warns and bans are the solution though as the solution needs (as I have read!), to include
    when Admin are not present.

    The way I think it should be handled is via the 'Tank Control Timer' and Tanks should loose control on the
    ladder faster, like x3 faster if they stay on the ladder for more than 5 seconds beyond the time it takes
    for a tank to climb a ladder, this must also have some thing to detect if the Tank hops On and Off the
    ladder too.

    Then any Tank that looses Control via ladder offences should then be 'Auto-Insta-Killed'. This should NOT
    be aplyed to L4D1 as there is no Tank Heal and is practicly suicide for a Tank on L4D1 to do.
     
  18. Medi-kal

    Medi-kal MG donor


    Well, i think the initial cost of heal for the tank should be about as much as the cost of the tank itself.
    45 points sounds pretty good!
     
  19. Vulcan

    Vulcan Game Server Moderator

    Once again all these problems are isolated to Points Reloaded servers. I love Vicious Infected where life is simple.
     
  20. davzee

    davzee <img src="http://mgftw.com/webdesigner.png" />

    Lol no way 45? way too high...its fine as it is now at 15, i think the best suggestion so far is left4pies idea where by you lose control of the tank 2 or 3 times as fast when on a ladder or possibly lites idea slaying the tank after a certain amount of time on a ladder.

    I used to love vicious and berzerker but after playing PR for a few months then going back...wow its weird, its almost a completely different game lol i just cant get back into it...one of the more noticable differences is the reload time on weapons and spitter/smoker/boomer attacks....they seem to take FOREVER oh then theres me pressing my key for the buy menu all the time realizing there IS no buy menu haha....PR's the way forward :)
     

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