Right or Wrong, Open for Discussion

Scenario: Playing as Infected. End of the Round. 2 Survivors Left, I am jockey. Both of the survivors are in-caped by smokers. I go up to the survivor and start clawing him. All of a Sudden MG Erik kicks me for kill stealing? Was this right or wrong in your eyes, lets open this topic up for discussion. I believe this is abuse of power but, ill leave this up to other members of this server to decide.

If I am incorrect that I sincerely apologize for my actions because I was not aware that clawing incaped survivors qualified as "kill-stealing".

Personally, I think that having an awesome admin around just ruins it for me. I don't want any excuses, that kick was unacceptable in my eyes because I had no intention of kill stealing, I was just clawing because it was the end of the round, what should I have done? just stood there and waited? Wheres the fun in that buddy.

LOOOOL Just got a 10 minute ban for switching to infected because joined the server as a dead survivor. Way to talk to me before kicking, I joined the survivor and was dead right when I joined so I switched to infected. There shouldnt be ANYTHING wrong with this. The round just started too so what do you expect? you want me to freaking wait the whole thing out? more abuse, ban without warning.

I want an apology from this noob lol he doesn't have the right just because he has the command to ban without talking to me first. and its not even on the rules. Where does it say that Im not allowed to switch teams when I join the server dead?

Before erik can come onto this post and give a bunch of bullshlaha reasons why he kicked me, I hope he reads this and knows that I only want an apology for what you did wrong, nothing else.

 

Personally, I dont think that's kill stealing at all. People do that all the time and whether or not you get the kill is really not that big of a deal. Its one thing to claw at someone who is being smoked. That seems fine by my standards. Now if you were to blatantly steal the kill by purposefully killing the smoker or pouncing/charging the survivor, then I guess that's wrong too. I don't really care too much about kill-stealing, but most others make a big deal about it. Nonetheless, in my opinion (and this is solely based off of the scenario that YOU described, since I did not witness it myself), the kick was wrong.

I will say, however, that by you linking the urbandictionary.com definition of "douchbag" under the word awesome, you are not presenting your problem in a mature manner. Why would any of the other admins take you seriously after you just disrespected one of their fellow admins? I understand you're upset, but your approach makes all the difference as to how the situation gets handled. The approach you've chosen to take doesn't look like it will lead to a solution in your favor.

 

Lol I was thinking about that too and actually changed it as you made the message. im very upset right now, this abuse is stupid... and I dont understand why he banned me right before the end of the finale instead of WHEN I actually switched... my opinion, if he didn't notice it right away, then you had no idea what the situation was. If he HAD been paying attention he would have noticed that I joined as a DEAD survivor. and if he asked me WHY I had changed team, I would have EXPLAINED that I was DEAD when I joined the server.

 

I have an issue with this also. Not necessarily with Erik, but with all the admins that have done this in the past: I was playing VS last week and one of the people on my team (lvl 201) switched to infected side because he didn't want to play with a certain player. At this point, infected team was stacked. There were TWO admins on infected team but neither one kicked that player. I (lvl 210), therefore, switched to infected team also, since it seemed the rules about stacking were no longer applicable. One of the admins then switched to the survivor team (I later found out that the admin who switched had a problem with their !admin menu and was waiting for the other admin to do something about the switcher). My issue is the fact that none of the admins said anything to either me or the other person for team-stacking/switching. Yet here ^^ we have an example of some noob who decides to team switch because he joined dead, and he gets banned without warning (and w/o being asked to switch back). Its not like him switching would make that big of a difference anyway. I just wish you admins (whoever feels this applies to them) would be consistent. I understand some of you want to give second, third, and fourth chances, but the way some of you let things slide is ridiculous.

 

Being kicked or banned is definitely frustrating...that's why I became a donor a year ago...but there is a section for submitting unban requests and I think you should have directed your frustration in a message there instead of a public forum. IMHO
Maybe someone thought you clawed the infected which happens often even if you are not trying. Regardless, a 10 min ban is nothing but accusing admin abuse is a big deal. I play with Erik all the time and never see abuse. I also often check the ban list to see if my guild members are on there or whomever and often see his bans appropriate and fair. Also without a demo no one will ever know the truth...In the end, just play on.

 

I refuse. I am only sorry that your two bans have done no good.

I banned you before for team switching. You said "I hoenstly don't know," didn't you, when I asked why?

I noted SourceBans / Hall of Shame. You admitted you knew what you did was wrong.

THE KICK WAS A WARNING, only a kick. However, you returned, then decided to SWITCH to INFECTED? You don't choose your teams.

Why, in any rational state of mind, would I apologize for a kick for something you've obviously had issues with? On top of that, the kick that wasn't enough, whihc resulted in a ban less than an hour later (for the second time in less than 2 weeks or so...) just verifies my point.

If you're still sore, I'll be waiting on a hill with a boomer. And I'll get you, just like I do when you cheat.

PS - Coming back in-game after a ban and arguing that my killsteal point is invalid cuz of your "disapproval" at my vocabulary words is haughty, presumtuous, petulent and lofty. It's your fault for forcing me into this position. I give and GAVE you umpteen warnings in the past.

Discussion? My ass. This is a hierarchy, not a democracy. You don't just walk into some place and say "JUST CUZ I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY" to a long-standing rule. You are attempting to dismantle our entire process. No. You will respect this fucking process and this fucking set of rules or you will simply find some place else to game. Period.

Lastly... P.S.S.S. I guess? I counted SIX (6, kids,) jockey scratches on a smoked victim. If excpetions are made "cuz they're the last survivor" or 2... then this entire thing will become unbundled, chaotic, over-ruled, etc.

Two days ago you were seriously fucking butthurt cuz someone charged your charger. Oh damn. I guess it doesn't apply to you. Only special SI. Rrrrrrrrright. And for the record, I kicked you cuz you knew what you were doing, and wouldn't have quit. End of fucking discussion.

Please close this thread pending replies to the other "discussion points." Consult the Hall of ShAmE for your FOUR OTHER multiple rules infractions if you're confused and, if need be, come to me in a dignified fucking light, via private message. We could have avoided this altogether. Instead, you choose to want to be banned. Nice credibility move.

Thank you for being an MG donor. SORRY TO SAY, though, chucking a few fuckin' bucks at us isn't going to buy you the farm, or your way around the rules or any other such "circumventing" of them. Werd.

 

[QUOTE=

 

That's asking a lot. If I am in-game, out of RESPECT, I follow a "senior admin's" lead. By senior, I mean any other admin in this jig longer than me. If they miss it, I bring it up if I catch it.

You said nothing. I remember this game, then the issues all came back to me after I left or, better-said, discovered it in my message cache'. (SHIFT+TAB compendium of messages. Most of which are asking for tanks.)

You, TJ, are someone I expect a LOT out of. Being a leader and one our longest-standing ones... You should at least "take one for the team" and say something.

I am not the type to invoke favoritism. In fact, if someone kicks up a fuss and says "I simply won't game w/ them," then thinks that gives them right/license to switch, I'll happily give htem a good 10 minutes to half-an-hour to rethink their actions.

You can expect a lot out of me, but not abnormally sub-par human traits of detection or whatever-the-hell. If I'm in game, I'm not adminstering a fucking MENSA exam, I'm gaming too.

But I"m a little disappointed at your turn from "It's nice to see admins finally doing somethign around here" in re: My TK ban the other day... yet, this somehow took a radical transformation into some catch-all about me overlooking something.

Outrageous. You can expect a lot from me, as I was saying, as I am (if nothing else) consistent. I'm not a harbinger. However, I am not a zealot either. I'm not out to rewrite the MG Book on Being an Admin. BUT: I am here a lot. I game here a HELL of a lot. I promised changes. I am making a lot happen.

Please, though, I repsectfully request you cut me some fuckin' slack on this one, cuz I"m allowed to overlook one or two things. That's where trust and leadership comes in. I invite ANY other gamer, Guild Leader, or anyone of any sort of trope to be a good steward of ethical gaming and openly ask questions. It's when that becomes "no, Erik... it's not..." and tries to democratically deflect the attention off the rules or interrupt games b/c of admin decisions. Let hte decisions be.

Again, I invite everyone to be a good steward in-game, but stick to the fuckin' game and just follow the rules. Just cuz you don't like someone on your team... doesn't mean anything. A team fails to be one when someone is refusing. If they're honestly that butthutr, they can practice on our COOP server (= Cooperative Play,) or our VI server. See how far that attitude goes there.

VI wouldn't entertain that for five minutes. COOP? You can't refuse to be on a team there, so you're "stuck" w/ PR. Personally, PRVS is something I can't get enough of. There's been a spade of rules-breakers, oppositionally-defiant assholes and bannable behaviors lately. Doesn't mean I'm on a ban streak. Doesn't make it fucking right either, to do those things.

Off-point, but still an important one. Games can go HORRIBLY. They can go fantastically. If I'm in-game, I keep "FAIR" and "FUN" my 2 priorities. If I'm forced to focus on fair-only, fun suffers. I won't have that. So, if drastic measures (bans) are required for boys like Dr. Tran who refuse to listen or follow the rules, bans will occur.

We warned you guys that this shit stops presently. Now, the warnings are over. Those who have been (documeted, at least, for me) warned/kicked/banned already? Come the hell on... get it right.... it'll be more severe in the future.

Whoever that "guy" was, TJ, tell me. I'll happily figure out what his problem was and get assurance he'll re-think his teamsmanship.

I re-iterate... I will always keep this fair and FUN. I won't have the fun taken out of this.

 

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This was just so much... I don't know where to start. First off, if you notice, I didn't mention your name or anyone else's name in the example I gave. It was simply an example. Sure, you were one of the admins in the example, but there's no need to take it personal. I simply gave it as an example of admins not doing what they should be doing. Maybe you weren't paying attention at the time when me and that person switched. It's not a big deal. The point of the example wasn't to say you failed as an admin. It was simply to give an example of something I see quite often on the servers: admins enforcing rules in one scenario, yet not enforcing the same rule when it involves another player. Since you want to make it personal, then I will go ahead and give another example. A few weeks ago, you told me about how Friend (one of my guild members) went afk right before death and you did not kick/ban him. Yet I've seen you kick others for that same exact thing. Isn't that unfair? Or perhaps another example: SmOkKe has team-switched, many times while you are in-game, because he does not want to be with a low level on his team. I never see you kick him (keyword: see.. if you've done it when I'm not in the server, then ok). But for others, you will kick them for team switching. Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to make this personal. It's really not about you. It's about all admins. I've heard your rant about how this is a hierarchy and I understand. I just don't understand how you or certain other admins can enforce rules if you are going to be inconsistent about things. Its either a bannable offense or its not. It shouldn't be a bannable offense for certain people but not for others.

To respond to what you said about me stating that you are an admin finally doing something: I stand by my comment. You are one of our best admins in my opinion (no ass-kissing, trust me). Despite those few examples I gave, I honestly think you are doing a great job as an admin. To reiterate what I've said already: I just simply gave examples of what I think admins (plural, meaning not just you) need to work on.

I beg of you, please don't respond with another speech or cool story. I've said more than enough and I don't really think there's anything more you or I need to say regarding my comment. If you have more to say to me, just PM me because that last response was just too much. OMG lol

PS. I was joking about PM'ing me.. seriously.. dont.

 

Idk about all the other bullshit thats goin on in this thread lol, honestly i couldnt be bothered to read it all but kicking him for scratching a smoked survivor was wrong, people do that all the time...fuck i even do it lol it just kills them faster and half the time you dont get the kill anyway, however when a jockey JUMPS on a smoked survivor or a charger CHARGES now thats annoying and against the rules maybe warranting a kick or a slap.

Also tran your "awesome" link to the jk you suck pic is a bit childish and lame used in this manner, obviously you aint happy about it but cmmon....

 

I'll make this short and quick as I can never write more than a few sentences in a post. I don't know how you guys write so much....

Anyway, "kill stealing" only counts when you have a survivors in your grasp and another person steals it. For example, you have someone smoked, but a hunter comes up and pounces the survivor and steals it from you. Scratching is not an act of team stealing. As for the other bans, sound alright to me.

Oh, and we all need to make sure to warn people and ask them to stop what they are doing before banning or even kicking them

 

^agreed

Also, with team switching, I think it's always best to ask a person to switch back before taking any action.

 

But if i'm smokering someone and a jockey comes by and starts scratching,and at the end he DID got the kill,that is killstealing imo.

I think it is pretty hard though,cause with a smoker smokering from a distance u can scratch without doing damage to the smoker,but that doesn't work with other SI.

I have seen SI scratching at a surv while he was pounced by a hunter,and it didn't took to long before the hunter was dead....that is blatantly killstealing (not even talking about teamkilling!!)
The distance between a surv and a pouncing hunter is to small to scratch the surv without hitting the hunter.

So,what will be the rules then?

U can scratch if a smoker is smokering from a distance but not when a hunter is pounching?

I think u should leave the attacker alone with his honest kill,look for another surv and if he is the last one,check ur buffs or whatever.
There must be something else that u can do instead of stealing someones kill.

But still,i think this is a difficult rule.

 

you guys write to much sigh, im go eat steak

 

I agree with ZombieGirl, if the survivor has no way of escaping, leave the kill to the SI that got it. Don't be a faggot by trying to hit the survivor and risking to damage your team mate and take the kill, or even free the survivor if grasped.

I also think a warning is always needed before any kicking or banning, but on the other hand I can understand if an admin bans straight away given past warnings (in the hour) and previous bans for similar reasons, in which case the player should know better. There's a limit as to how much you can take an admin or any player for granted, which everybody here knows alot of players would do just because they can.

Like davzee, I'm pretty shocked at the level of maturity of the OP (sarcasm, there is no maturity in the post) and with that redirection to the lol you suck picture, I just can't take the complaint seriously.

 

Probably the most substantial post I've ever read.

 

The moment the walls of text started popping up we took this issue too far. I think we've about worked it out, so this thread has outlived its usefulness. In order to prevent any more arguing that will get us nowhere, I'm going to close this.

I've already talked to Erik about this, but in the future I'd prefer exchanges like this to be done over PM or Steam chat even if a thread like this is made. I don't like seeing arguments in public spaces like this because I've seen too often what they end up as.

To Dr. Tran: Next time you have an issue with us, or any one of our admins, please approach us with a more mature and respectful attitude. I can guarantee 100% that we will respond better to that than linking the word "awesome" to an image that says "JK you suck" or to the urban dictionary definition of "douchebag". Regardless of what your situation is, both are signs to us that you are not ready to discuss the issue with us in a mature and dignified manner. I ask that you please keep that in mind next time you have a problem with us.

Thread Closed.