PR-VS Important Issues Discussion!

Please bring the scramble back or something, anything to make the teams in versus more balanced. It's the same every single time, all the higher levels get switched over to one team and the rest are on the other and we're not allowed to even them out ourselves. It's been like this for far too long now, versus needs to stop being neglected.

It's frustrating for all the veterans.

 

tottaly agree with that ^^ i mean its cool to help new guys when the teams are balanced but when 2 highs stick with all lows in the team and the other team have 6-8 high lvler its only a joke and you can do nothing

 

Since we are gonna talk about versus I would like to add a few things:

I requested in the past that we can start a votescramble even if "teams seems balanced" (It is still saved as a recommendation in bugzilla as "the teams seems balanced issue") We all know the consequences of bad scrambles, so I don't get why we can't have more control over it...

Also, takeover in versus is disabled for some reason and it really pisses me off, sometimes I defib a teammate and instead of the player I dfib a bot and no one can takeover.

The "slow down survivors" is too cheap and the price should be increased to the same value as bile shower, and heal items in vs should no increase their value, its a pain in the ass keep track of much is it everytime.. And I dont want coop players saying here that is just 1 bp, no one cares, blah blah blah cause it's not that simple when you are playing against good vs players. And there is also the fact that this overrules the nature of negociator...

Another thing that screw up the fun is the tanks provided by director in random maps, and that should be disabled if it is possible. Sometimes only a few high lvl players are in the game and in order to prevent that all the low lvl rq in 1 minute sometimes we agree not to buy tanks, at least not until the end of the round. well 1 free tank is enough to make that a full server end up with 4 or 5 players in just a few minutes. And yes someone can say just pass the tank but it's not like everyone cares about this, and even with a lot of high lvl players getting a free tank at the beginning of the round screw up all the fun.

The ride control buff is as everyone knows a little OP, maybe instead of removing it like some ppl are asking to it should change a little like making it work for the first idk "5" seconds of every ride instead of permanent.

The assassination boost should work only for claw damage, not for the spit. Same goes for the bounty thief buff (idk if this one is already removed, if so, just ignore this comment).

And of course, the explosion ratio of the pipe traps. If a trap explodes 1 km in front of me, or in the lower floor, why the hell does that have to kill me too ?? maybe pipe traps should kill the si that causes the detonation, and in a ratio maybe leave the other SI with 1 HP, but kill all the SI in the area is too much for a single 6 bp pipe bomb.

I know that there are more things to add to this list, but I think most of the big ones are listed here.

 

Renaming Thread "PR-VS Important Issues Discussion!"

Agree about Ride Control. NOTHING should trump the electrigied knife... ever. Perhaps restrict it to non-electrigied users only? That would balance it and give them a REAL advantage over the high levels who may seem OP at times.

Agree about random tanks, they should be bought. I did not see cars mentioned. We have so much object blocking going on every map, every day, that it's getting way out of control. We need to severely decrease ADDITIONAL (non-standard or not already-provided) car spawns that or stop them entirely.

Assassination Boost for spitters needs to be removed or restricted to claw damage. Assassination Boost spitters are game-enders. Assassination Boost SI in general only make gamers target low levels more. I LOVE the buff... but, it scares off new gamers, so I am against the buff being around to be honest. Most want it here, so don't ask my opinion about it unless you expect me to say the bets thing for MG... which is to remove it. Buffs that override other buffs or electrigied knives need to be censored.

Scramble, the real point of the thread. I want to see a simple system, one that only values level average and head count. HC has an idea about HLX factoring-in. I'm not sure about any further details. I think the scramble issue is a HIGH, HIGH importance one, fringing on critical.

 

I forgot one really really important concept. What is good and what works. I do NOT intend to only bring up things I see as important changes. This is still a community I have put five THOUSAND hours into l4d2 through on this account alone.

And after four years of being on MG, I still find it addictive and can still play for five hours nonstop and enjoy it all. So, by comparison, the things I find concerning are minor tweaks in the grand scheme, but still important issues. I just don't want to appear ungrateful or anything short of appreciative of HonorCode's work.

 

thats the point from ride control we talk much about it

and to assasination boost i think we all love it but 500% its too much i think with all that new gamers on pr vs how we can make them feel welcome and bring them back on the servers when my charger can kill them with 2 claw hits and a high lvler die in 4 or 5 claws seems to powerfull for me and schould be reduced for all infected maybe 100% or 250%

and what duncan say why the heal items increased the price for what reason ? many times i die when i have 13 b and med cost 14 or 15 and we stick together and help us all much and dont rush but many players think its betther to move fast and leave slower guys behind as come to a point whereyou cant buy heal again

and the pipe bombs seems too op for me but you must see it in 2 ways first the trap kill 5 or more si with 1 explo is too much for 6 b with that ratio and then the pipes who follow erik say its coop only not sure maybe a joke but many guys use it on vs and they follow you and kill you all the time.

 

Yayaya pipe blalbalabna is OP ( if is pipe op, just rise price,pers id care).
Thing which me make pissed off is no balance and chain cars explosions
Strange that nobody mention the all this chain cars exploding on some maps, i really didnot play VS last days due the cars explosions when i as playing as survivor and car explode get fly 100 meter in air and die.( i died each round cos of that,seams like big knight pounce)
From one car explosions move to other car and then to other making burning hell, burning entire infected team, and survivors dont get damage from fire .What is that HollYwood????

Spitter Assasin: i did not have time to but more witches use all that bounty, you can make over 1000 bounty in just 5 min.

 

I'm suggesting that the jockey buff (ride control) just sets a delay until the survivor can use the knife. Jockeys are too weak, because you need to be right next to the surv to jump and ride him, so you can't do that when there is fire, and you have to expose to blow up with the pipe traps, and one you are riding a surv you can't release to escape (like hunter) so any other surv with deadly shove can kill your jockey in a second. In my opinion completely removing this buff leave the jockey in a very weak position. So, if we remove this, I think we should look for other buffs for the jockey, but I really think the delay idea I proposed here is good.

Speaking of cars, that may be the way to compensate low level players in versus.. Maybe object damage should work for low lvl tanks even when survivors are incap. Cars just bother me in small closed spaces because the objects end up block the path most of the times, and I'm not saying that the tanks do this or purpose all the time, it happens by accident too, and as a tank you can't waste too much time to remove the object because survivors complain and ask to remove the object but they don't stop shooting you.... So yes, I didn't have this on my list mut it is a problem

hahaha I wrote about that on the list but I forgot to add it to the post. AB buff is abused by some players that target the lvl 1 every single round to get the boost and of course those players RQ right away... Everyone who uses the buff know that it is really OP, but the biggest concern should be to prevent that new guys become the first target, so if it can be done, maybe killing players under certain level * should not trigger the infected boost (* idk, lets say 80 or so, I mean players that already have knife and can survive for a few seconds on their own)

Now, if I only consider the buff in a regular vs server, where everyone is 200+, well, I wouldn't mind if the damage is reduced like Markus said or removed like Erik said. (If this one is removed then I could re equip the Extinguisher Bile buff hahaha )

It is critical, even high level veterans get pissed and quit because of this. Using hlx data sound like a good idea, but as I comment you one time, hl stats penalize with point lost to those who keep fighting until the end instead of letting themselves kill right away like some other players do, they rush and don't self revive so they don't lose points, or play as infected and then quit for a few minutes... But anyway, that's offtopic I guess...

HLStats 1 Burial = 2 Jones ZOMG !!! sry joking joking I couldn't resist

In case it helps here is a small input: survivors using goggles should be taken as a factor in consideration for the scramble. It may sound silly but it makes a difference in teamwork, like going back to help others or shooting the Si who is about to kill a teammate, and all these actions are limited by the ability to see which is granted by the goggles.

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This may sound selfish, but I want shaman fire enabled but (similar as car damage as i is now) with the exception of no damage to incap survivors. Vomit from shaman is regular vomit, so in versus against high lvls is pretty much useless, spit around doesn't slow down the surv and don't do any significant amount of damage. And you can't buy things like slow down survivors so the only 2 things that are useful are the TP and mutation, which have a very reduced ration btw, and we have the fire ability that is disabled. Since it's a very rare item it shouldn't be the weaker tank. i like para the way it is now, but shaman is weaker than a regular tank. I realize 99% of the ppl don't care about this, and most likely they want shaman out cause it is expensive and only a few players have it, but it needed to be said anyway.

 

Not long ago HC started a poll about the car explosions, and most of the ppl voted yes, including you...

http://mgftw.com/showthread.php/8842-Remove-explosive-cars

 

So I was thinking about the assassination boost and have an idea which could make it a lot better..
Like Duncan said, it could trigger if the player you kill is around level 80, but the level of the player you kill also decides how much of a boost you receive. So level 80 = 80% damage boost, level 100 = 100% boost, level 215 = 215 % damage boost.

It might be a bit complicated to implement though but the boost is kept at a reasonable number and still half of what it used to be when you kill a maxed out player.

 

Sounds great, and the max would be around 200% so this will fix the OP issue too.

 

well for me the real problem is not the cars~ because its not a big deal *for me*
i love shooting the cars in vs sometimes i try to explode cars while being the tank too, it do area dmg when exploded + funny seeing people flying (sometimes i fly because of cars too, but its still funny for me)

scramble is really the big problem~ well SOME people complained about their team is unbalance *well thats normal because its unbalance* and then we scrambled next map.... but still its unbalance but after scrambled and people who got a good team now not complained anymore~ they checked the !players and they know its unbalance, and next map they didnt care about scramble and when someone called a scramble vote SOME people who angry before now said it was balance~
so i prefer the scramble system to be the first one to fixed...

and i know its not easy to fixed things like this, still having fun in vs tho~
hope its gonna be fixed asap :3

 

Yea voted yes i dont have nothing against when one car explode,its cool that tank can explode car to, but now when car explode and u fly in the sky 100m is little to much, it wasnt exploded an atom bomb, i was talking about range and power of explosions.You could fly couple of meters.I am against to have chain explosions on server(its op and make lag),doesnt need all cars to explode.Even in real life its not that all cars are with full tank of gaseline.

 

Thats i talkin about, we dont have here all the same taste, someone likes pizza ,someone likes lasagna.I personally dont like when i play survivor flying 100 m in the sky cos one car exploded, its not funny at all to me and is unreal.Range of explosion is to OP and many people know that and abuse that.I dont think so at is funny to when entire infected team dies cos of explosion of car.In some maps is so exploding many cars that is impossible to come close to survivor or u burn.

 

scramble is one of the problems I would list as being serious issue currently.
Once teams are balanced, players cannot scramble again even though teams are completely uneven. This also causes players to leave.

pipe bombs that explode for insane damage, I understand the person who stepped into one dies but every infected around should not.
I've seen one pipe bomb kill few infected in single hit, that might be too much for its cost and on many maps you find pipe bombs.
maybe increasing its cost but nothing crazy to the point nobody will buy them.

"This may sound selfish, but I want shaman fire enabled but (similar as car damage as i is now) with the exception of no damage to incap survivors.
Vomit from shaman is regular vomit, so in versus against high lvls is pretty much useless, spit around doesn't slow down the surv and don't do any significant amount of damage.
And you can't buy things like slow down survivors so the only 2 things that are useful are the TP and mutation, which have a very reduced ration btw, and we have the fire ability that is disabled.
Since it's a very rare item it shouldn't be the weaker tank. i like para the way it is now, but shaman is weaker than a regular tank.
I realize 99% of the ppl don't care about this, and most likely they want shaman out cause it is expensive and only a few players have it, but it needed to be said anyway."

I've seen the shaman trigger mutation on few people at once, mutation may have low % but I do see it being triggered pretty often.
ability to teleport between players gives the tank amazing ability to be in two places at once.
since the shaman can heal himself, all he has to do is hit and run tactic which allows him to hardly ever die.
any tank can play hit and run tactic and hardly ever die but a shaman with these abilities not ever dying would cause problems.
The fire might be too much imo. In closed area the shaman already can trigger mutation, if fire gets added it will wipe players way too fast.
And lastly vomit, the reason its useless against high levels is because goggles removed vomit from the game completely.
not sure if this can be done but here's an idea;

vomit from shaman and boomer will always work on everyone equally but buying vomit from buy menu will only work on those without goggles.

since buy menu vomit can be spammed which needs to be controlled better, boomer vomit should be more viable and usable against everyone equally.
better compromise would be welcomed!


can't say I agreed with having goggles since it removed huge gameplay element from the game.
goggles always been problematic, catch-22 thing. But I do feel it causes more harm than good though.
removing much of the challenge from the game.


ride control - we either need to update the details of this buff or change it. It does not say completely disables knife usage anywhere on it.
When I first read it I honestly thought the jocky can move the surv faster away, like hop him away quicker sort of thing.

assassination boost, adds even more reason to focus on lower levels. I'm not sure how to tweak this current buff myself but a change is needed which
doesn't force players to focus on lower levels.

as for cars exploding, it isn't issue for me personally.
I like them exploding, if anything we need more cars. (so long they do not cause lag on the server)
Since they do damage to surv and infected, the surv must be clever to know when to cause them to explode.
Though reducing the size/radius of the explosion might be needed.

 

The scramble system is the most important thing to be done first.
And I agree that the range within which pipe bomb trap could affect is a bit large.It should be decreased.
As for Ride Control buff,I also think it should make survivors unable to use knives only for a while but not forever.But if it were removed,then jockey on vs would be weak.
Random tank spawn should be disabled.But on some finales,it will cause problem.For example,on the finale of Dead Air,it's very easy for survivors to start the finale before the infected can earn enough bounty for tanks and then the infected cannot buy tanks because the finale has started(another is the finale on No Mercy,but the infected can always get bounty for Tanks before survivors get to the radio).So I think either random tank spawn should be abled on these maps or we just remove that limit of no tank buying after finale starts(I prefer the latter one).
I know that if random tank spawn is disabled,some players(particularly low level players) will be disappointed because there are no more chance for them to play as tank and its hard to get so much bounty like 60 to buy tanks and high level players(particularly those who play as spitters from beginning)will get tanks before them.However, on vs we need stronger and more skilled tanks which are very important to infected team .
The last thing is about the price of vomit for infected.I think its current price may be low.The infected can always afford to buy vomit ,especially for tanks.As a result,survivors will keep being vomited on till their death and cannot see anything.So I think the price of vomit should be increased every time the infected buy it(+1 or 2 per time after they buy it).


Btw?it's winter vocation for me now and I have come back home where my net sucks .So I won't play often.Hope you guys have fun on vs.