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Grenade Launcher issues - can it be limited somehow?

Discussion in '[L4D2] Points Reloaded' started by smokke1982, May 13, 2011.

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  1. bloodhand

    bloodhand MG Donor

    yeah its right, im not playing on coop often, more at versus atm. since it changed with gem system from tanks. i better get gem when i craft em. and on versus server u just get faster points.
    i try to help new player when i can. but only if they want. when i see a new player saying : whats that for a stupid server tanks push me in air etc, there i see no way to help...sry
    yeah i rush out at start on coop but i go back when i see one alone in trouble. i feel sry that u have such a bad impression from me :(
    @ topic : my suggest is remove heatseeking at versus or make gl to 30 or 50 bounty. or make a 25% chance that heatseeking dont hit
     
  2. Mr T

    Mr T Member

    changing it to 50 bounty almost insures nobody is going to ever use this weapon...that it will rarely make an appearance in levels anymore.

    :)

    Now I'm happy about this because honestly, it's the WORST thing I've ever seen put into a fps...auto aim rocket launcher. I made damn sure that I exploited it's use every chance I got. I also made sure I spread the good word to just aim in the air and you win. (I posted it first on these boards and spammed the lame technique in chat during games...) Just so that those who might have not known how to exploit this stupid ability, learned how...

    That being said, I'm pretty sure I stated pretty clearly awhile back, that things will get out of hand with this weapon once more people got it...and oh look!...I was right...once again...
     
  3. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    i do not find it an exploit, usually low levels, player who are not equip with heat missile and losing team tends to complaint the most.

    This is RPG, its all about special abilities.

    you can actually avoid the heat missile in some maps if you see one firing it. but u have to be fast or lucky.. lol. the reason why people usually get bad impression about it is when one team is stack with players that have mostly max chararacters and max special abilities. this team will definitley be super powered up, a high level in the opposite team cannot do anything since they either dont have the heat missile or too few in their team that has heat missile.

    so the problem actually lies in the team scramble.

    again, this is RPG mod, its all about leveling and gaining special abilities.

    why no one complaint about tanks' wet skin, they dont get caught on fire. and with added mind control rock, hes totally invincible when hes somewhere where players cant shoot or melee tank, for example, the hard rain map chapter 4, i was losing health as tank due to players shooting at me.

    so i climb the building and hide there throwing rocks, they threw fire, i still didnt die, cause i have wet skin. so my mind control rock did all the damage and won the game.

    again, this is RPG mod, its purpose is to be almost the same as playing WOW and sacred. you level and you can buy abilities. this is not berserker or vicious mod where everyone has the same perks.

    and the cost of GL in versus and coop is separate issues, they dont relate and the matter is not the same. GL is a pain in versus, i agree with the increase in cost while in coop GL is the pain reliever, so the cost is just nice to help the team win the game.

    i agree with bloodhand on GL being limited to coop and not in versus.. but then what about mind control rock? are players gonna start complaining about it too.. lol..

    i suggest increasing the gem cost for GL too since its purpose is the same as mind control rock. make it 65 gems to get the GL. the very reason why players are complaining is because at the cost of 6 gems its pretty much easy to get a GL.
     
  4. Nova

    Nova Senior Member

    I still keep to my radical solution that I proposed on my other thread:
    Just remove GL from the buy-menu and make people deal with just being able to pick them up on any map.

    The GL is annoying just as it is, and now people are pointing out problems with the HMGL, on Versus like on COOP.

    The price increase to 50 everywhere is already an idea, that I myself appreciate a lot if the GL isn't removed from the buy-menu. I mean let's face it. when you get to the armory in dead-center, there's no grenade launcher is there? it's meant to be rare, like the m60.
     
  5. davzee

    davzee <img src="http://mgftw.com/webdesigner.png" />

    Bit of a douchey thing to do wouldnt you say? you say its the worst thing you've seen put into an fps and you hate it yet you used it all the time, spammed it and constantly told other people to spam it aswel *sigh* sounds to me like your the main person contributing into it getting out of hand in the first place - then you come here and complain about it getting out of hand and "you were right...once again" :huh: oh the irony lmao wheres my double facepalm meme...

    Edit: Found it, you deserve it :first:

    View attachment 588
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Mr T

    Mr T Member

    Because Davzee, when only a few people know how to exploit it, it doesn't seem like a problem. When only Mr T comes on and bitches...it appears to just be Mr T's problem...

    When Mr T teaches everyone how to exploit it, so the problem becomes increased exponentially, than it becomes a glaring problem for EVERYONE...and not just Mr T's.

    In short...to fix the problem, I had to make it worse.

    I'd be happy if all auto aim were removed from the server for good.

    I should not have had to explain this logic to you, but sadly...I guess I did. Cute piccard gif though.
     
  7. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    In the first place, This is RPG, not your normal standard L4D or even equal to vicious or berserker mod.
    i don't get why players play the PR mod and then complaints about abilities.

    RPG is all about abilities, how in the world can you exploit abilities.
    like i said, if u have it, flaunt it. players that dont undestand RPG dont understand PR mod at all. i dont even get it why they play this PR mod and then complaint about it. if your not happy with it, go to our other mods that may suit you better. this mod is meant for players that understand whats RPG is about.

    Here we have modders that have dedicated their time to give players all types of gameplay and fun, and at the end of the day, what do these modders get in return for their input, COMPLAINTS AND MORE COMPLAINTS about abilities.. Seriously, players that dont understand RPG will never understand whats PR mod is about.

    I dont even understand why players can play so long in the game and even be a high level and still complaint about abilities,

    its like telling WOW to moderate the lich king's damage and be more friendly to new/low level players. WTH.

    and fyi, it wasn't because a few people know it and then it was exploited, it was because no one had the gems to buy it in the first place. like i said, to stop this we need to increase the GEM COST of GL to 65, equal to mind control rock as they serve the same purpose.

    at the cost of just 6 gems, almost every players that spend sufficient time to get the gems will definitely be able to get the GL. for example in MG store, if u buy the double bounty package, you get 5 gems for free, and it doesnt state meant only for 1st time buyer at all, every time u buy db pack, u get 5 gems.. lol..
     
  8. Mr T

    Mr T Member

    If you came into our studio and tried to preach this cavalier attitude regarding game balance because it's an RPG server...you would be mocked and teased and laughed out of the studio.

    RPG games still have to fine tune and balance their games around the abilities they create. You can't just add whatever ability you like and then defend it's ridiculousness under the guise of "it's an RPG server". That is some pretty dumb shit right there.

    I like this server, because I like leveling up abilities and then fine tune the end game play of them...but in this case, Honorcode will not stop adding abilities, and he certainly doesn't play test them, or think them through...so you get stupid shit like this auto aim which completely wrecks the fun on this server...i end up playing less and less.

    Let's say Honorcode dreamed up and stuffed in the ability to allow survivors to fly to the safe room. (as ridiculous as an ability this sounds like, I really do not put it past him to actually do this) ...would you still think "hey cool, if you got it, flaunt it!". Now suddenly maps are taken over slowly but surely with survivors just bypassing all events and all SI as they just fly casually on by to the safe room...

    I find it really boring as hell pointing at the sky and pressing fire while running in a big circle. I don't see how you actually enjoy that? Unless it's just me doing it, then I guess it's fun because I know eventually all SI will target me, and that's somewhat enjoyable.

    But if I'm grouped with 2 other auto aim grenade launcher guys then sorry littlebrother...you are not going to take us down. 3 is roughly the cut off to impossible. Now imagine if 6 people have it...and eventually you get everyone who's a high level spamming homing grenades in the air.

    Now further on down the road, you have all high levels with their tanks having homing rocks.

    So now what does gameplay boil down too? Tanks on one end of the map shooting the sky versus survivors at the other end lobbying their missles in the air...and the special infected just sit back and watch because the minute they leave their cover they are fucked.

    I don't think I need to be Nostradamus to predict that...

    oh and FYI...ya, I taught more than a a handful of people who had it early on to just point to the sky and shoot. The rest just picked up on it and the information spread like wildfire until it became common knowledge. Oh and FYI...increasing the gem cost does not negate the fact that eventually everybody WILL get it...you are just delaying the inevitable.

    Bad idea, is bad.

    Out of everyone here who is attached to this mod, I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy who actually gets paid to make video games. Yes, I can be fucking rude about it, because after 7 years of being in this business, when I see or experience bad game design, it pisses me off. I won't apologize for it.

    But in the end, I'm right.

    It's like when I ripped Choo Choo a new one for fucking with the Dead Center maps...because when he did, he obviously never took into account that Valve made those maps for a reason...made every section of each map that way for a REASON. And sticking new ramps and pathways on it, completely negates it's original balance and design...he stuck in ramps without any thought of consequence or reason...like Honorcode, he did it because he thought it was a cool thing to do.
     
  9. davzee

    davzee <img src="http://mgftw.com/webdesigner.png" />

    Lol yes indeed you did not have to explain your "logic" to me, i was going to include it in my original post but thought it best to leave it out and see how u reply ;) cheers for typing it out it such a condescending way though thats always appreciated.

    Basically "Huurrr ive got a problem so ill make it everyones problem :dance:" as i thought - thats ok though man im with you, i hate the HGL aswel its way OP - i just didnt resort to douchery to get my points across...a simple thread in the forum sufficed, I suppose we should be thanking you though, if not for people like you its bounty might never of been increased at all (though somehow i think it might of)

    Wow ive just got to edit this in -

    These things are added in to spice up the game a bit...it can get repetitive after so many years of playing the same maps the same way. Your arrogance is quite amazing really you "ripped choochoo a new one" for putting the time and effort into trying to mix it up a bit? and you constantly complain about honor. It seems to me you much prefer vanilla gameplay so please go and play VI or any of the shity 4v4 servers out there....we wont miss you or your "7 years of paid video game developing/designing/whatever experience" of which you never actually use to contribute anything useful to our servers at all lol....
     
  10. Mr T

    Mr T Member

    Your entire response to my post was a confusion over my logic, Davzee. "You complain about a feature in the game, and then abuse it, teach others to abuse it, only to complain some more?" "WAI U DO THAT MR T??" [Insert piccard facepalm gif for lulz!] Facepalm Piccard gif's are never condescending btw...

    Now I love this backpeddle response. "oh I knew all along what your logic was, I was just foolin, and I wanted to see how you would respond..." Well then why even make the fucking post asking me why and trying to point out my hypocrisy in the first place???

    Ya...do your friends typically purchase this bullshit you sell?, because I'm won't.

    Well I did put a simple thread in a simple forum bitching about it. Knowing full well where this homing grenade ability would go...and most people tried to play it off with "stop bitching, Mr T, it's fine..." Well fuck that. You think it's fine? I'll show you just how NOT fine the ability really is. I will admit, you were the only admin who agreed with me from the get go...so props to you for having foresight.

    I'll play whatever the hell suits my fancy. And I'll admit, in the beginning you guys had a good thing going, and it's frustrating watching you guys fuck it up. People are attracted to RPG style game play and they love building characters and tracking stats. Myself included. Congrats, you guys achieved this.

    But it's very frustrating on my end watching you guys fuck it up in small ways every time you add something new in the vain attempt to "spic it up".

    Most online games, players will play the same few maps over and over and over again. They do that because the enjoyment is in the GAMEPLAY. From battlefield to World of Warcraft...regardless of the game, the same few maps are favored and played.

    If you find your mod needs "spice", it's not because the maps are at fault...it's the gameplay. It's shit like pointing to the sky and pressing fire that has you bored...not the maps.

    But if you absolutely need a map to alter and fuck with, I suggest cold stream. Add as many fucking ramps as you want to that pile of shit, because the map designer certainly didn't know what the hell he was doing when he made it.

    I'll be gone soon enough fella...don't you worry. I'm growing bored of this mod and trying to educate you modders on that small concept of play testing and game balance...now excuse me, I have to work.

    /end arrogance
     
  11. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    lol, this debate can go on forever,

    ok my input,

    every gamer knows that one game studio tends to rival another, they will always be critical about some other game studio creation.

    i agree with Mr T about fine tuning, but he forgets that MG is not a game studio. They dont create games and they are not paid for it like someone who does :P they only do mods that is modified from the original. and to be so critical of MG's staff who are not paid to lookout for bugs or fine tuning like he is with his awesome game studio company just goes to show how professional he is from someone in the gaming industry.

    MG is not like those big time corporate game studio that has the resources to pay people like Mr T just to fine tune games for players when players dont like it. If he is what he says he is, im wondering why he never made his own l4d mod in the first place that can rival MG's l4d mod.

    He sees how popular MG is getting, i m wondering why he never propose such ideas to his company and just rip the spotlight from MG. and you know why? its plain simple, he just can't do it like honorcode does with his felllow members like legend, litehawk, marvel, davzee and the rest of the gang who can carry the l4d game to another level that even valve could not think about, heck, even coldstream is created by some independent guy who loves to create mod for l4d, and valve is just supporting him with the resources.

    and i find it strange that we have to follow Mr T's thinking of what standards a zombie game should be.
    ever heard of plants vs zombies? dont tell me you cannot be critical of that zombie game, oh cmon, plants vs zombies, zombies don't eat plants, they eat brains. how did such game can come about and still be so popular worldwide. its a kid sgame but played by adults worlwide.

    and yet, someone like Mr T, can be so critical of ideas that modders like honorcode can come out with. games are never meant to be vision according to what players want, its meant to be materialise according to the modders' wants. its the sequel that always follow according to what players want. and fyi, PR is no sequel, its a starter.

    and quoting what you just wrote "If you came into our studio and tried to preach this cavalier attitude regarding game balance because it's an RPG server...you would be mocked and teased and laughed out of the studio." just goes to show how much you really understand RPG. i bet thats the very reason why you got bored of your company game and came here to play with us in MG, ahh thats so cute of you, dont be shy about it.

    and fyi, players always have a choice to use the heat missile ability or not, and for someone who hates it so much, im wondering why he still use it, just quoting again "I find it really boring as hell pointing at the sky and pressing fire while running in a big circle. I don't see how you actually enjoy that?" then dont use it, why your still using it, its because that heat missile ability is what gives your team the extra edge to move forward in the game, provided u have a bunch of good players to support you, or else you are just another easy target for a high level player like ME.
     
  12. Nova

    Nova Senior Member

    Mr T as in Mr Troll ?

    I'd rent a luxury suite in a palace for your arrogance, if not the entire floor.
    It's good to say what's bad and what's right, but seriously, why do you have to be a douchebag when you say it ? Stop taking people for granted, and tbh, even though I've never seen you in-game, and by judging from your attitude, I really do hope you stop playing on MG and rid everyone here of your despicable attitude.

    RPG put l4d2 gameplay on a whole new level. It's not perfect, sure, but it's no reason to shoot down the people behind it, and think you're superior. Here's my trolling:

    Most people are enjoying it, so STFU & GTFO
     
  13. LEGEND

    LEGEND Senior Member

    I'm going to say something though and most of you won't like:

    I agree with Mr T.

    Hear me out. Yesterday, being such a low level player, I was bombarded with some high level grenade launcher spammer guy - needless to say our team lost. A new player in-game also commented, "What the hell..." and left. I felt like an idiot losing with my team all because of one guy and his pet grenade launcher.

    When it was our turn to be survivors a tank spawned for the opposing team and again we got owned because of mind controlled rocks. Another player soon left.

    These mods are actually pretty damn annoying (sorry honor) for low levelled players. I can't survive one map. Here's what you're going to say to that: "Why don't you just go play on COOP servers legend?"

    That's when I retort: "What? To level up so that I can just get a grenade launcher and run through the map?"

    You say: "So? What's the harm in that...?"

    I say: "Do you enjoy that?"

    You feel uneasy - not wanting to say yes and not wanting to say no, then finally you say:
    "If I get the points for it then yes."

    I for one, do not agree with that idealism of just running through the map and getting points. To some degree it is considered farming in my opinion. You have to admire Mr T's forthrightness because if I were to say all that I wouldn't be in MG anymore lol. But he's got a point.

    A sharp point.

    I think we should remove the ability to buy grenade launchers and consider removing the heat seeking grenade's and mind controlled rocks because, what the hell, these things are breaking the game in half. No longer is there skill required to play; no longer is there the whole idea of 'OMG you have to aim for the survivors when throwing that rock'. People just blast their way through, there is no skill involved and I for one, have to say that is the most daft thing a game could achieve.

    Mr T, next time, please don't swear like a baboon in a banana shop. Keep the lid on and we'll honor your ideas and your views but if it goes past that into profanity then we won't look at your ideas we'll just look at the ban page :)
     
  14. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    and if you think honorcode's creation is ridiculous,

    look a this video
    [video=youtube;vMWGYt5ax6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMWGYt5ax6c[/video]

    Even a commercial top player like seanners (plays COD: modern warfare 2 and blackops) can be appreciative of a "2d lego with a 3d view" game call minecraft.

    Now thats ridiculous but understandable.
     
  15. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    @ legend, the reason why heat missile is almost available to every players, its because its cost only 6 gems from early on and currently. thats why its easy to get unlike the mindcontrol rock which is 65 gems and not everyone has mind control rock than a select few that i know of.

    also sorry to say this legend, but u belong to one one of those group that i mention in my earlier post.. my quote
    "i do not find it an exploit, usually low levels, player who are not equip with heat missile and losing team tends to complaint the most." and also "the reason why people usually get bad impression about it is when one team is stack with players that have mostly max chararacters and max special abilities. this team will definitley be super powered up, a high level in the opposite team cannot do anything since they either dont have the heat missile or too few in their team that has heat missile.

    so the problem actually lies in the team scramble." So the problem started when it was too cheap to get a heat missile at the cost of 6 gems only and i quote again "at the cost of just 6 gems, almost every players that spend sufficient time to get the gems will definitely be able to get the GL. for example in MG store, if u buy the double bounty package, you get 5 gems for free, and it doesnt state meant only for 1st time buyer at all, every time u buy db pack, u get 5 gems.. lol.."

    So the cost is the root of the problem. not the ability itself, if u had me and a few other high level players in your team, the game would be balance or even the score would be so close, that its a really tight fight,

    i know because i have played in one with nerfarious, kiris, darkfirehound, oh my god i will not save, diamond and many more high level players. it was challenging and also because the scramble was really balance and for the first time it REALLY BALANCE OUT THE PLAYERS SKILLS AND ABILITIES. if we could have a system that really identify players for their skill in balancing the team, that would also solve the problem.
     
  16. Mr T

    Mr T Member

    In this industry, the term "oh shit dude that fucking sucks" is tossed around more often than not. You guys need thicker skin.

    Am I arrogant? Sure...I freely admit it. You guys wouldn't last 2 weeks with my old life drawing instructor...that man made grown men cry...lol.

    If you create something, sometimes it's going to be torn down. What you decide to do with that feedback is up to you...but the better artists look at it objectively and not defensively.

    Obviously the core philosophy of this mod is sound. And I do not see any direct competition...yet. But their will be.


    edit: Stop listening to LittleBrother...jesus christ man...I do not understand this kid's logic sometimes. If the GL was 8 gems or 80, you are only delaying the inevitable. The issue is with the ability auto aiming for the player. Nobody enjoys dying to some tard who shows great skill by aiming at the sky. That's the problem. I have no problem dying to anyone who actually aimed at me...but knowing that the game is aiming for them? That is the core issue of that ability.

    Oh ya, and that scramble function they implemented which was his branchild, completely destroys any personal ownership anyone has on the team score.

    I mean, why give two shits about the team score when you've been scrambled 4 times before the finale?

    This is a whole other issue which has gotten decidedly ridiculous. Their should be one scramble...at the beginning of the next map. Outside of that, all the balancer should do is make sure that the team numbers are relatively even...that it is never 10 vs 6. This whole scrambling in between every round is beyond silly.

    At any rate...I'm going to eat and play some portal
     
  17. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    Well, MG been running well for more than a year now.

    the only reason why i would see a competition is when i saw this
    " Out of everyone here who is attached to this mod, I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy who actually gets paid to make video games. Yes, I can be fucking rude about it, because after 7 years of being in this business, when I see or experience bad game design, it pisses me off. I won't apologize for it.

    But in the end, I'm right." and this "Obviously the core philosophy of this mod is sound. And I do not see any direct competition...yet.
    But their will be." So simply put this is a prediction of what may come. So whats next? i don't know, let Marvel decide.. lol

    as for this "
    Their should be one scramble...at the beginning of the next map. Outside of that, all the balancer should do is make sure that the team numbers are relatively even...that it is never 10 vs 6. This whole scrambling in between every round is beyond silly." You all already know that he does not like to help players because of his rambo thingy as mentioned in one of the threads. and im not the only one that knows him not to be a team player. its all mention in here by other players. check it out: http://mgftw.com/showthread.php/194...-more-disadvantages-for-new-low-level-players

    as for this "
    Oh ya, and that scramble function they implemented which was his branchild, completely destroys any personal ownership anyone has on the team score."
    what more can i say, honor and i think alike, just that hes a programmer and im a social worker..lol. and fyi killing players and wining each round give you more points and experiences than winning the whole campaign. So learn to help and not stack the team. i would consider that farming too.
     
  18. Mr T

    Mr T Member

    RPG mods are becoming more rampant in other videogames. Modders are catching on what people are finding popular.

    Will I ever make a mod? Fuck no. It's beneath me. I mean sure I like left for dead, but after working 8+ hours on video games, the LAST thing I ever want to do is go home and relax by making a fucking mod. So get over it...there will be no Mr T mods. I have better things to do with my time.

    But somebody else is bound to catch on to this mod, and make something similar. It's just bound to happen. It's inevitable.

    The rest of your post, is ridiculous, and has nothing to do with anything that I'm talking about.
     
  19. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    i think im starting to be friends with Mr T.. :)
     
  20. Nova

    Nova Senior Member

    I think most of us agree with Mr T, Legend.

    It's the way it's said.

    Gee dude, I'm glad you've been through amazing shit in life, but who the heck cares and nobody wants you to hand it over to others on a silver platter.

    You score good points like Legend said, but there's more arrogance, vulgarity and immaturity in your posts than reasoned arguments.
     
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