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Tanks in PR need nerf.

Discussion in '[L4D2] Points Reloaded' started by Justme, Jun 16, 2011.

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  1. Justme

    Justme Member


    I understand that you're mad you can't rape with tank anymore, but don't start talking bullshit.

    2-3 survivors can not kill a fully upgraded tank with 15 bounty heal.

    Even if all the survivors are level 200 that isn't going to happen.

    And as for the blocking ladder, it doesn't matter if you lose control or not, you can just go down and hit someone once and the spitters up stairs will block the ladder for you when anyone tries to go up.

    Same for SI there if they teamwork you ain't going anywhere.

    This heal change was a great choice and many people here already stated why. Raised In Hell explained it perfectly. Grinder as well.

    Now you need to use strategy to kick ass as tank. So if you suck and don't bother using your brain you will def suck with tank now.

    The only reason i can see people complaining about the heal change is if they gemmed out tank and focused on upgrading it and now they don't rape as much as they did before. It sucks for you guys but this actually helps balance.
     
  2. Wanted

    Wanted MG Donor

    Kid play more i know u r noob in game but u can become a average player one day(it might take a long time) lol ,,,,,,,,,,and i am not against this but 50 bounty is too much.I am not the only one complaining many players in game think 50 bounty is to much but they not wanna spam in form.
     
  3. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    Okay, i do agree that 50 bounty is a lot but thats the whole point of balancing the game up. There are few solutions that people came up with and i'll tell you why they won't work.

    1) Some people said, the bounty should increment like survivors, e.g. first heal bounty should be 15 then 25 then 35 etc but the thing is, a maxed out tank can easily get bounty between 15-35 with few acid rocks and to be honest, he wouldn't need to buy the heal 3 or 4 times because he would have killed the survivors by then.

    2) Some people say 50 is too much, and it should have been raised to 25 or 30 max but that is still not difficult for a maxed out tank to get. You have to remember one thing, high level players can get so much bounty by just playing as SI so if they do get the tank, it will be easy for them to keep buying heal if the heal bounty was around 25-30. I can easily get between 70-150 by just playing as SI and i use most of my bounty on buying boomer bile so imagine if i don't spend that bounty and i get the tank so i would end up killing the whole survivor team if the bounty was 25-30.

    And you say there are other people who complain, well what else can they do. If it was upto those people, they would prefer if the heal for tank was free. I have played as tank and i haven't had any problems with it what so ever because i don't just rush to the survivors and get my ass kicked by survivors. To summarize it all, people still use the old method with the tank where they rush to the survivors thinking they'll kill them all, instead they get owned and then they have nothing to do but to moan and complain about the bounty.

    P.S I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong because it all comes to the personal opinion and i have explained my opinion above and i know people will disagree with me which is why it's called an opinion.
     
  4. littlebrother

    littlebrother MG Donor

    well said.. u need strategy as a normal tank now.. if paranoia.. wth.. just do it..
     
  5. smokke1982

    smokke1982 Banned


    Mon ami...your understanding of the whole tank thing amazes me. i can find so many flaws in your thinking..but, nonetheless, i promised Joerve i will behave myself...anyway


    • 2-3 lvl 90+ survivors can kill a tank. As big as they are, tanks are slow as hell. Like i have said before, it takes at least 2-3 seconds between swings and in the same time a survivor can swing 4-5 times, which translates into 2-4000 damage. Close quarter combat tanks are not that good, unless they are paranoid. Example: today on extreme coop, it took only me, cookie and Easykill to terminate a tank in less than 30 seconds just by meleing it.
    • Wrong. lvl 200 means 275 health, max swing, max damage max speed, max everything....2-3 players lvl 200 can easily take out a tank
    • not everybody has macros for buy heal and so and so (i do have shortcuts and so :D) take also in consideration the time needed to purchase those heals...
    Ergo sum, mon ami....
    Q.E.D
     
  6. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    The reason you guys managed to kill the tank that quickly has few reasons..

    1) it was a AI tank so they just punch you and wait for another punch which makes it easier to kill them
    2) Those tanks aren't maxed out unless its a paranoid tank

    I can guarentee you that if you three try to kill me as a tank with my maxed abilities, first off, there will be less chance of you actually managing to kill me and secondly, there is no way i would die in less than 30 secs unless i am lagging like hell. My few acid rocks will bring you guys down, heck my maxed out spitter with 75% speed reduction will also incap you guys which goes to show the difference between AI & Human and maxed out abilities can have a big impact on the outcome but you can't forget the strategy which is the main thing.
     
  7. Edward Marlus

    Edward Marlus Senior Member

    i wanna know, is vampire really working on your side? , cuz it isnt on mine. =/
     
  8. Edward Marlus

    Edward Marlus Senior Member

    also, tank always sucked. give us moar swing speed melee more health and less melee dmg and both sides of this argument haz moar sandvich.

    EDIT : wtf guys? taking acid rocks into consideration? what about the people who don't have GEMs? oh wait who gives a fuck about them :|
     
  9. August

    August MG Donor

    Even before this update I always played tank really carefully (because I used to play with pros in 4v4 normal servers) so I would get a tank, find a high up spot above a building and throw rocks (even though my corrosive rock is only level 1 but sometimes I can get it 3 - 4 times in a row when I'm really lucky). With the new update I still do the same thing..
    What I don't like about this update is the tank can't hide in the saferoom (with undercover tank) and hide and then hopefully make a last ditch attempt and kill the survivors.. As long as the survivors work together you get owned immediately..
    Two survivors is enough, but a pro survivor alone can own you..
    One survivor attacks from the front and another from the back = you dead. No matter how high leveled you are...
    Even with maxed out corrosive rock... It's futile because I have tried throwing a rock in the saferoom and I died even before the rock was thrown, melee was way too fast and killed me.
    With a single survivor the same thing happens, because usually if only one survivor makes it he would be quite high level (which is why he made it). No more rocks = dynamite rock and corrosive rock don't apply. No way to increase damage..

    But of course what I'm talking about only refers to tanks in the saferoom(basically every map except waiting finales), I'm fine when it comes to finales when the survivors have to wait and tanks can slowly rock the survivors.. Every other map (non finales or rush finales) are really hard cause you can't rock forever..

    Also I tried buying a tank yesterday but they said tank limit reached(3). Can we remove the limit, at least, since tanks die so much faster now?
     
  10. Justme

    Justme Member

    [QUOTE='???? ??G
     
  11. Kayrac

    Kayrac Junior Member

    This thread is interesting

    Raised has a few points, but honestly raised, i'm pretty sure if you were the tank, with 2 other good players+me in the safe room, you would NOT kill anyone........and while it wasn't you, i've done it a few times with some of the higher lvl, better tanks.............took a long damn time, but

    I also see raised mentioning ALOT of 'acid rock'..........acid rock is great......except for the fact that you can be killed BEFORE YOUR ROCK IS THROWN, easily by 3 high lvls, and it CAN happen with just 2

    as far as justme, honestly, just from this thread alone you have no idea what your doing, and how to handle situations, convincing you would be impossible, somewhat harsh yes, but honestly man, if you want i'll stream some of my gameplay just to show you half the stuff your saying is flat out wrong, misinformed, or makes no sense

    Tanks as they were before, were perfect, IF you played your cards right, were high lvl, and not retarded, you were EXTREMELY hard to kill(note, not impossible, extremely hard), if you were a new player, you died in 10seconds......it was quite perfect, the heal was somewhat easy to get, but honestly if the survivors had any sense of how to do things, it wasn't really an issue

    anyways i keep seeing this 2-3 people won't kill you thing......please stop, THEY WILL

    PS the ladder blocking was a different issue, and honestly this shouldn't change it if the tank has any sense at all
     
  12. vishus puss

    vishus puss MG Donor

    Gah OK So I pressed the wrong button on this post I was trying to write... Lemme try again...

    Kayrac brings up a few interesting points. A tank will die even if maxed out in less than 5 seconds due to melee. Throw a rock? Pfft... hopefully you are perched away where melee can't rape you.

    Then again, I'm totally against that !buy system altogether. Totally ridiculous a tank can spam 10 heals in 5 minutes. Glad it got fixed.

    Now the point remains that a tank is not truly a TANK anymore. He doesn't drive fear into the heart of survivors. They just pull out their frying pans and go to town. Can a tank truly TANK anymore? I think not. Could he before the !heal was changed? I think not. Healing was a lame way of tanking.

    My suggestion? Paranoia tanks are immune to melee. Why not give a skill for regular tanks so they can have 50% resistance or something vs melee? I don't know if this is at all possible seeing as how melee is hard-coded, but it would be nice.

    A tank should be something that survivors fear and must team up to concentrate on killing the big lug, not something that two or three survivors can kill in 3 seconds flat.
     
  13. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    I know where you guys are coming from but when i say Acid rock, i don't mean stand in middle of the survivors and throw acid rocks coz that won't work. What i mean is, stand at some high place which is high enough to protect you from melee attack and then use the acid rocks because the bullets will do less damage than melee. Kayrac said the tanks were perfect before, i disagree with that and the reason for that is, The high level players would hardly die as Tanks because they would keep healing themselves.

    I asked this question in the admin forum to the other admins where no admin answered so i'll ask you this Question here. I'll say it briefly, why do people always complain about Infected and not survivors? This question could be implied to this tank situation perfectly. I see people saying Tank is too weak now because survivors can kill him easily with melee so this begs the question, why no one is complaining about the speed of the melee swing? I mean that could also be reduced, not that i would want to because i have no problem with the melee swing speed or the tank being weak as you may say but i believe this is how the tank should be. I mean just because your a tank doesn't mean you could just walk up to the survivors and kill them and expect to live, you have to use some strategy to kill the survivors. I'm
     
  14. vishus puss

    vishus puss MG Donor

    I agree completely with the melee swing issue. But what is truly the problem here, a tank dying too quickly from melee swings OR survivors with too fast of melee?

    My guess is this: A completely upgraded survivor VS a completely upgraded tank = survivor win. Maybe the tank needs more upgrades, etc. because it has so few? A survivor can just res itself, eat pills, throw mollys, melee, shoot, bile, and buy more of these things from the !buy meny. A tank can upgrade its hp, speed, and rock throw. Oh and be invisible until it gets hit. I personally feel that tanks are slightly left out, they don't get more damage with each punch, etc. BUT survivors get more HP to take more punches.

    What about paranoia tank? I think it would suck just as bad if melee could hurt it.

    I will go back to my original question: What is so scary about a tank anyway? It takes about 10 punches to incap a fully upgraded survivor with his high hp. My guess is tanks need upgraded, not the fact that survivors have tons of upgrades. Tanks have so few!
     
  15. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    I'd say if the melee swing was at normal speed then the tank wouldn't die THAT quickly and it would give Tank a more chance of doing more damage and possibly killing the survivors. I have managed to kill the survivors even with this new tank system if you use the right strategy. Paranoid tank sucks ass to be honest, i paid for that buff and i have to admin, if you get the paranoid tank then ur buzzing but when you have to play against it, it is a pain in the A**. The only way i see beating paranoid tank is to rush to the safehouse and don't care about other survivors if they are incap coz if you go back to help them then most likely your doomed as well.
     
  16. vishus puss

    vishus puss MG Donor

    But to downgrade melee swings, how slow does it have to be just to change it so survivors are more equal to a maxed out tank? Even in VI if the survivors jump a tank with their normal melee swing it dies fast. That is where strategy comes into play I suppose!

    Right now though, if a tank has trouble with 2-3 survivors, maybe it is the tank that is the problem and not the survivors?

    Here's a dumb idea I just came up with at work: New tank skill: 25% chance (maxed of course) to incap a survivor instantly using punch. so every 4 punches is worth an instant incap. Think a tank could punch 4 times vs 2 survivors with maxed melee? I doubt it, but it is possible.

    Strategy is the best thing. Like GI Joe: knowing is half the battle. But one of the few strategies left to a tank is to perch in a tree like a pigeon and throw rocks. Or have the right timing if fellow SI teammates actually back up the tank. Right now all I see is tanks running for their lives ROFL. Or people cursing on mic cause they didn't want the tank.
     
  17. Kayrac

    Kayrac Junior Member

    people complain about infected, because infected do not require as high a lvl to be effective, a strong tank does not require you to be high lvl, however fighting a strong tank does............this is where the balancing is wrong, as your catering to a bunch a low lvls

    imagine this change when everyone is lvl 200.......instant pickups with 200health vs a tank that can't even heal, while everyone swings 2x per second, doing 1k per swing..............see what i'm getting at?

    tanks had 2 things for themselves, being able to heal, and actually be in the mix..........and hiding, and throwing mindcontrolled rocks.......the rocks are expensive, and are useless without max acid, so your looking at a shitload of gems

    i haven't even played, and i can already tell you tanks are useless as shit atm(please correct me if i am wrong)

    also raised, i heard you mention your super bounty amounts, now that you got the 75%, but i'm truely curious as to how you constantly get it that high.......because honestly i find bounty somewhat hard to get, depending on my team, and theres
     
  18. Raised in Hell

    Raised in Hell Senior Member

    The thing is, i'm not thinking that far ahead because by the time everyone gets to level 200, i won't be even playing this game much by then coz i will be working and l4d3 won't be that far as well but i will say one thing though and i believe this thing is the most important thing. Before the high level players tanks were over powerful and they could take the entire team down on their own but now the tanks rely heavily on their team mates and if the team work is poor then the tank will fail meaning the team will fail. I have seen so many high level players die like noobs with tanks and then they cry about this new tank system. To conclude this, i would like to say, i can't be bothered justifying my opinion on tanks so you guys can try to convince each other because i don't think this system will be changed just like the survivor self-revive system so peace out .. :)

    P.S I find it quite easy to get good bounty which is why im mostly in the top 4 for most dmg done to survivors around 85%+ of the time.
     
  19. vishus puss

    vishus puss MG Donor

    Woah, enough with the pre-flames rofl.

    I thought everyone was just expressing their opinion to (hopefully) meet in the middle! Why's it always gotta be black and white anyway? Where is the grey area?
     
  20. Wanted

    Wanted MG Donor

    people in 10vs10 dont give a shit about tanks standing up at high place and hitting them with rock.they will not stay there to shoot u lol and even if u incapp 1 survivor 7+ time(not even including heal) with rock he have enough upgrades to keep comming back and even if survivor become b/w he can heal or his teammate mass heal..this is not 4vs4 buddy where u can go high place use ur throwing skill to kill survivors.Tanks r lame now (especially if a below 70 lvl player gets it)t and as a a tank u cant even use car etc to incapp or kill a 70+ survivors bec of unstoppable upgrade.
     
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