Doctor's been subtracted

While some people may frown upon it, there is nothing stopping people from changing their interp settings. It is possible for the server to restrict the interp_ratio but not the raw interp value (although it is possible to detect these settings and block players who are using anything deemed unacceptable). The advantage it gives is minor, it's not like some magic cheat (I'm using default values btw). The only reason the values are not changed by default is becase many of the network settings are based on very old standards from the days of dialup.

What are you on about? lerp is short for cl_interp, it's a client side setting on all source games.

 

Huh? What kind of conclusion is that? You're saying client settings are not considered cheating - but tweaking interp is lame and should be considered hacking. Where is the difference?

I don't get how you are willing to ban someone for fixing Source Engines crappy network layer. On most servers used for tournaments it's mandatory to lower your lerp to at least 67ms, but you want to force people to use the crappy defaults? What's next, kicking people for low ping? Or too high FPS?

Seems like at least someone gets it: http://mgftw.com/showthread.php/6798-Question-Relating-Lerp-Settings?p=62635#post62635

 

Just a few things to add here:

Disclaimer: Personally I haven't changed interp since the days of competitive Counter Strike 1.6, and when I have tried to lower interp on L4D2 I found it even harder to deadstop since I've become used to meleeing early to compensate for the lag.

The main reason I started playing on MG servers was that the players and admins seemed to recognize skill vs. hacks and didn't jump to conclusions like this. Changing client rates and interp settings has been a necessity for anyone who plays source mods competitively.

Interp settings aside, if keeping a level playing field means that people have to dumb down their playing style to avoid accusations, then that says more about the accusers than the accused. With this mindset you can either have a competitive game where people don't have to hold back for fear of kick/ban, or you turn away the more skilled players and spend the weekends playing on half-filled servers stomping casual players.

As for the other accusations against Doctor, pre-firing on common spawn points just makes sense, whether you think someone is there or not. With proper headphones, you can hear where the SI are spawning with rather high accuracy. I've played with and against Doctor for a while now, and have not seen a SINGLE action to suggest he's using any hacks. All of the complaints so far suggest a lack of competitive playing experience, and I would expect that most MG players don't play 4v4 VS and thus haven't had the pleasure of being completely dominated by a truly skilled and coordinated team.

I've really enjoyed my time playing on MG servers and have a lot of respect for the admins here, including the accusers. However, I'm rather tired of recording demos and holding back every time I play just in case the lynch mob aims their pitchforks in my direction.

I've got about 5 months of donorship left, and would like to transfer it to another player if possible.

 

Oh great, now we have lost another good player, all because of this BULL SHIT false accusations, if this dose not stop we are not going to have any players left for chicago VI.

 

I was going to stay out of this but fuck it, in all fairness i think some people just need to man up and accept the fact that their are better players out there than themselves, its such a lame and petty thing to do to accuse someone of hacking or using tweaks as an excuse as to why their not winning. It seems some of the regulars here have gotten so used to winning that the idea of losing is in some way so absurd that it must be HAAXXXXXX!....pathetic.

Instead of making excuses you should relish and rise above the challenge, playing against better people will only make you step up your game and improve yourself. Tweak your own settings if you want...theres no shame in it, I personally mostly leave mine to default but thats only because ive gotten so used to the default settings that i dont really feel the need to change them, i have played about with em though.

Not sure what novas on about when he said "new players that tweak interp will be banned for hacks most likely" ? Uhm no lol unless you were being sarcastic?

Theres always going to be someone out there better than you are....dont let your egos get in the way and jump to false accusations, it makes you look like a bitch.

 

Davzee you're right. You should have stayed out of it. You are commenting about something you know nothing about.

So we don't get off topic, let me summarize again what is the bigger issue. Bonekeep was forced to kick (not ban) Dr. because of numerouse complaints from not just admins but a lot of the regulars and especially the newer folks. This was over a period of at least several weeks if not months. It got so bad that people would join and say "Oh, Dr. Hackulator is playing? Well, good night everyone, I'll go play somewhere else." Bonekeep acted on behalf of MG and for the good of MG. To be blount, Dr. was running people away. And I know this was a difficult decision for Bonekeep because to be quite honest, Dr. is a nice guy. But I agreed with the decision and I believe Vulcan did too. (not trying to speak for you Vulcan). Dr.'s "lerp changes" were much more noticable than anyone else's.

So...about these lerp settings. Some of you have talked about well that's what they do for tournament or competitive play. Well good for you. Go play there. Chicago VI is NOT tournament nor competitive play. At least not highly competitive like the way I believe you are referring to. Chicago VI is exactly what it is. A bunch of old farts hanging out on a Fri or Sat night trying to crack each other up. Some of you, who don't know better, call this team stacking. That just means that you haven't played on our side that often because if you put me, Bonekeep, Vulcan, Dead Already, and a couple other folks that have mics on the same team the last thing we are talking about is the game. And we could care less what the score is.

My last post I asked a question that no one has answered yet. How does an empty server help MG? If I am a new person hitting Chicago VI for the first time I know I will be going up against some regulars. I have learned to play online games with my ping and my equipment and I know if I watch them it's only a matter of time before I become a regular as well. But now I don't just have to play against regulars but "super" regulars as well who have unknowingly, to me, tweaked there settings to give them an even more advantage. And to make matters worse, those settings seem to make those "super" regulars have unique God like powers. Even though I may be new to MG, I am not new to online gaming so I know what these powers typically mean. So why as a new person would I ever come back to MG and donate my money? Is this someone's definition of having fun?

So let's do this. Either make Chicago VI vanilla, no lerping allowed. Level playing field, play with the ping and equipment you have become accustomed to. EU can be whatever you want. Or, allow lerping. HOWEVER, on the splash page when someone joins it will need to show AND explain how to make those adjustments and why. It should also appear if someone types in /info in case they missed it on the splash page and probably an amendment to the Wiki. The easiest in my mind is just to make it vanilla. I guess I'm just old fashioned. I don't get why you would want to make the tweaks in the first place. We're just trying to have some fun and encourage people to come back. I don't see how the tweaks help that. And that is the bigger issue....how do we get more people to play, come back, and to donate?

 

So let me get this straight. I'm a bitch now for taking months to consider if collectively there is enough evidence to consider the possibility that someone might be hacking, and when after long consideration and multiple questionable instances I decide to send the message that I, and others, have had it with this unbelievable good streak of lucky shots, blocked pounces from behind, etc., by giving a kick. I didn't start this thread. I wouldn't have even responded to this if not for the OP's taunts... daring anyone to prove he's cheating and insisting on my response as though I'm afraid to speak.

I didn't challenge lerp setting or whatever other bullshit is being spewed as defense. I know that there are plenty of players that tweak their settings, but they have never given me the cause for concern that I have with this player. I can't say definitively when it all began, but there was a time that this became an issue. Could it be that I didn't notice before because there were never instances were I played against this player? maybe. Does that mean that there wasn't funny business all along, of course not... I just don't know.

This has nothing to do with this player being better than me, or any of the other top players on the server. Maybe it helped him keep up, kinda sad if you ask me. Again, I'm not talking about tweaks, but rather any possible hacking that I readily acknowledge I can't prove, nor have I tried to prove. But don't mistake that for anything less than a very strong suspicion that this is more than a few tweaks. There has never been a hacker that ever has admitted to doing it, so I don't expect anyone to admit anything. All I asked was that this player remove all doubt by playing above reproach. Instead, he ratcheted it up further, and on the resetting of stats, began full on farming... to which he and another admin fully admitted to doing but would not stop, again compromising our friendship by testing the lengths to which we'd be willing to go to not rat out friends. Not surprisingly, as the retarded farming to reach the top of the leaderboard continued, more and more incidents continued to point to something not right.

But it's nice to see that other admins here who have never witnessed a minute of this player's in-game behavior, who have been sucked in by the conversation becoming a referendum on lerp settings and not about the clear concerns I and others have beyond some stupid tweaks, who never asked for further input from a fellow admin, can come to the conclusion that I'm a bitch that gets owned by a player that spends 24/7 scouring the net for any advantage possible.

Maybe more admins can like that. Ya, real nice...

 

Don't get me wrong, I've tweaked client settings since the start of hl games. I side with those that think it's dumb to tweak in a game like l4d2, tbh I think it's funny people take it so seriously when it's far from a competitive game (VI competitive? there's a big difference between real competition in tournaments and leagues than a casual VI game).

Why I say new players will be banned ? look at this thread, the current admins and apparently other players think it's hacks, so if nobody knows the new player, then he can easily get banned for hacking, when it could just be tweaking. Not implying our current admins don't know the difference, but it's always a possibility and human error is inevitable.

There is absolutely no problem with tweaking client settings at all. Like stefe said, Valve left those settings for clients to adapt to their own computer and internet connection to optimize gameplay, it was only normal to allow players to tweak their settings if they knew how to in order to have more fun.

I also don't understand how people can get so butthurt over all this tweaking stuff. 1 player got kicked, and now people want to quit? I used to get banned on CS 1.6 servers all the time because they thought I was using aimbot and wallhacks, but instead of whining about it it was best to take the best of it and accept it as a compliment. Someone mentioned how Doctor was falsely accused, which could be true, but how he wasn't actually helping himself with his case because of his attitude and the base of the thread itself: complaining in public because of a kick.

This thread was going to be a fight from the start, told you stefe...
Unfortunately we can't verify if any player is hacking unless it was pretty much obvious or we used a hack to confirm ourselves, so the player always gets the benefit of doubt. In any case, whether tweaking is an excuse or not, client settings modification is completely accepted and there's nothing anyone can do about it. If someone gets kicked for "hacks", be it true or not, they either take it in or they take it like a bitch, the difference was made with this thread.
This was more a player-to-player issue involving one player and one or a few admins, and it had to end up like this.

 

Really? You're already going off topic. I would like to see these mythical complaints you and Bonekeep get on everyone, because I can pretty much narrow it down to pretty much two people. And I can bet you there isn't numerous people complaining about anyone you claim to get complaints about, because the majority of people that play on the Chicago VI server don't really care!

It is team stacking, and always has been, and always will be. Call it whatever the hell you want, you can glitter it all up as much as you want, but it's simply team stacking and no new player is going to stick around because of it. It's that simple folks! I've tried helping out the other team occasionally when I still played on MG, but to no avail, none of you really cared about the teamstacking (with additional throwables and weapons due to donor status) causing people to LEAVE the server. And before you go on about, "Well, they should donate", why the hell would I donate to a server with people like this?

No one is going to leave the server because someone changed their lerp setting, because honestly, everyone knows about lerp and it really doesn't bother anyone other than, yet, wait for this, Youngblood, Bonekeep and Vulcan!

Let's face the honest truth here. YOU and Bonekeep, along with Vulcan crying is keeping new players away from MG, specifically the Chicago VI server, because the other servers do not have half the abusive admins as you two are. You and Bonekeep constantly abuse your powers as admins, make up your own rules on the VI server, team stack, kick anyone that you don't like, and come on here to write long ridiculous posts of why you punished them. Everyone usually brushes it off, because no one really cares until they get hit by you.

I mean really guys, you break your own rules, you constantly harass new players that come on to the server, you constantly harass women players that come on to the server, yet you constantly tout that this is a family server, meanwhile constantly trash talking about women and discriminating against them, while also allowing nude sprays, and also asking to see so called nude sprays of women. Some family server! And don't you dare tell me you don't do this, because I can gather quite a bunch of shit on you two alone and all the women you've harassed down the line, especially ones underage. You make up the rules as you go and only kick/ban people when it suits you and at the same time trying to find a rule/excuse for it. You are not going to encourage new players onto the server nor is it going to encourage more donors to the server this way. You two yourselves are damaging the reputation of MG (Not like it isn't bad already) and in turn making the server empty 90% of the time, congratulations! Look how you guys treat Halcyon when he actually tries to help MG deal with people leaving the server, now you constantly harass him for it and call him a whiner.

All I have to say is LOL to this. You can get more people to play, come back, and donate by leaving MG yourself. When you do, watch how many new players will start playing on the Chicago VI server when they hear you and Bonekeep are gone! Just compare EU VI vs Chicago VI, EU has more sane admins, people not leaving, no team stacking, no harassment by admins, game is usually pretty fun.

You've always been a bitch. And what evidence? You're like a bad cop trying to collect any kind of dirt on someone to get them kick/banned. Then when you know you've messed up, you try to cover it up with your friends with the typical bureaucratic ass covering. You had to respond to this because it makes you look bad. I deal with this kind of shit all the time with dumb government agencies, and you sir fit the image perfectly. You are stupid and clueless just like them. Instead of resolving the issue, you're confrontational at trying to prove you're right.

Face it, the only people making players leave MG are the admins themselves, not lerp settings, not people farming stats, not people spraying dumb sprays, not people trolling the server. Take it how it is, this is as far as I go to helping MG, I won't be coming back and you're losing more and more regulars while not replacing them with any new players just because of the admins.

 

I really wish davzee would have not commented with such a strong opinion on something he did not witness. I keep my nose out of PR's business because I have no bisiness there so when drama strikes there I have no opinion. I have never pretended to be a good player, I have a high score because I have more time than anyone. I think Dr. Calculator is a better player than me but there are many times when I suspect he is using an unfair advantage. I also think Seeker Sheol is a better player than me and I have never even once suspected he is using an unfair advantage, just a rock solid player who never rushes and would rather die than leave someone behind.

I am very upset at losing a good gaming friend and hope Dr. will return. He was warned months ago to stop or ban and he did for a while and the difference was very noticable. Then he started up again a few weeks ago, about the time stats were reset. I let it slide because it is my nature to turn a blind eye. Bonekeep did not ban him nor subtract him in any way, he was meerly kicked for 5 minutes as a message to knock it off. I play on VI, I never knew about lerp or used it and never will. Playing with 250 ping on EU is fine, I get my ass handed to me and that's fine. I would have left MG a long time ago if I could not take an ass beating and like it. To say that we are all the sudden nutting up against someone because we can't take losing is just wrong.

 

Yep,... I remember my first beer. Wish I could remember seeing NomNom on the server more than a couple times.

 

I really hope Doctor isn't really leaving because we REALLY need more regulars on Chicago VI.

@Everybody
If anybody who is reading this agrees that Doctor shouldn't leave, don't just sit there. Show your support and post in this thread.

Youngblood, I tweak my lerp settings. Do you notice any "god-like powers" with me?

You're making this out to be something that it's not. Tweaking lerp does not give you "god-like powers". It merely corrects a flaw in the game. If you didn't tweak lerp, you'd have to melee EARLY to deadstop a Hunter. If you do tweak lerp, you just melee at the correct time to deadstop a Hunter. Same with Chargers, etc. Their hitboxes (the sensors on each that actually registers a hit) are actually not in sync with the image of them you see on the screen. This makes sure they are more in sync.

That's it, nothing more.

I REALLY disagree with this. I have never seen anybody say they are leaving because Doctor is playing. People generally love playing with Doctor because he's a good player, and if he were hacking, people would be spitting left and right accusing him of being a hacker. We'd see a lot of people on this thread saying they left the game due to Doctor if that were true.

And its your job to correct other admins who think tweaking lerp is some kind of hack.

 

Come to think of it. I haven't heard any complaints about Doctor except from admins and HighVoltage. I don't play enough to see the issue as much as they do and they could be receiving complaints but I really haven't seen anybody besides those people mention that Doctor may be cheating.

I definitely agree with the donor thing being an issue on VI and if more people played VI, they'd have a problem with it. The only reason why people don't make a big fuss out of it is because most people on MG don't play VI.

I wouldn't say Youngblood and Bonekeep are harassing the shit out of people but the donors on one side of the team is indeed the main issue, and nobody should have to donate in order to play.

They don't really harass me for it but I do get the whiner stuff. I don't feel they are bullying me in any way because then I'd be annoyed about it. I don't think Bonekeep and Youngblood are the only people who think the donor mollies are ok, however.

I gotta admit, Bonekeep and Youngblood make the game more fun for me since listening to them is a hoot, but the real issue is the donor privileges on a server that is meant to be competitive.

 

I really wish you wouldnt pigeonhole me to PR lol...so because i spend most of the time on PR these days means i cant have an opinion and share that opinion on anything to do with VI, ive spent a lot of time on VI and berzerk.

Admittedly i have not seen the fellow in question play myself and im generally going by whats been said in this thread so my opinion is somewhat subjective but it looked a lot like false accusations to me, then when the deadstopping was explained with lerp tweaks it seemed people jumped straight on the bandwagon to condemn them when theres nothing wrong with it... even if their not false and he is suspicious hes innocent until proven guilty.

Maybe i have a bit of a soft spot for this kind of thing because it happens all the time in games like CSS where ive been accused and repeatedly specced, at first id brush it off as a compliment but it starts to wear thin and when you actually start getting kicked for it.....well theres no fun at all in that, yes it was just a kick but lets face it that was just the start.

On the flip side i know how irritating it can be KNOWING someone is hacking but you cant prove it, you know it, they know it, they know you know it but no proof....

Obviously a few of you were offended by my post so ill apologize now, it may have been a bit too blunt and no bonekeep i wasnt calling you a bitch, ive just heard there are some big egos on Chicago VI and id hate to see those egos blur a fair conclusion.

 

I sense this thread is going to be closed soon, so I figure I get some last thoughts in. I am not so upset about the kick as much as I am about the months leading up to it. I

 

I'm not dignifying every troll that is taking advantage of this thread to make shit up by responding (not referencing Doctor or Davzee or anyone else, I think it's obvious who). Should I have gone the route of gathering evidence through a demo before giving a perm ban? Sure. My thought was to do something that would get the point across without having to do that. Clearly, that didn't have the intended effect. So then a very, very small minority of players take advantage of the opportunity to trash VI admins and nothing is accomplished, other to embolden any one else that wants play however they want.

Doctor, like all other players, is free to play on any MG server. If they don't want to play with us, so be it. Bear in mind that though VI Chicago is indeed too often empty, it is when Youngblood, Vulcan and myself play that the servers generally fill up, apparently despite all the room our egos take up.

OP wanted an explanation, I gave it. He requested that he not be kicked anymore for this reason, duly noted. Indeed, I see no reason to continue this thread, so I will close it.